Jan 2, 2024
00:00:00 Salvatrice
At the end of the day - and we say
this all the time, why are we here? Why is anyone that does this
work here? We're here for the student, we're here to prepare them,
we're here to enrich them with the skills that they need, both
personally and professionally.
00:00:18 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly
changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up.
Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our
communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an
education.
00:00:31 Christina
But we need to understand how to
change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are
headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the
future?
00:00:43 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Kummo, Vice
President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City
College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:52 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer
and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:56 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation
about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education
can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to
attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students
in the workforce.
00:01:09 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to
lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are
learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they
enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the
employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the
community as a whole.
00:01:29 Christina
We believe change happens when we
work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm
Christina Barsi ...
00:01:37 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Kummo, and this
is the Future of Work. Welcome back. This is Salvatrice, your host,
and I am joined today again, by my friend and dear colleague in our
Department of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie
Thompson. Leslie, how are you?
00:01:54 Leslie
I'm great. How are
you?
00:01:55 Salvatrice
Pretty good. I have to tell you, I'm
going to keep repeating myself. I really enjoy these talks that you
and I have because we get to unpack some of the things that are in
our brain and even some of the experiences that we've had like the
day of.
00:02:07 Leslie
It's a great way to reflect for
sure, and keep us honest.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
For sure. And thinking about
reflection - you used a trigger term for me in a good
way.
00:02:17 Leslie
You're triggered
00:02:19 Salvatrice
We've been doing some reflection for
sure in this office, and thinking about 2023, what we were able to
accomplish, what were some of the opportunities that we perhaps
didn't seize correctly, or ... we always do this right? Like at the
end of every year.
00:02:37 Leslie
We start looking back, we try to
wrap up the year.
00:02:39 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. And I
have to tell you, like just based on our meeting today - so for
those listening in just a little background story: Leslie and I had
an opportunity to meet with an external organization and help
develop their strategic plan, and what it did for us ... I'm going
to say us because we talked about it.
00:03:03 Salvatrice
What it did for us is it kind of
brought out some aha moments about this work that we do, and it
underscores some of the feelings that we've had as well. And I
thought as a reflection episode, like let's really think that
through. Let's think through like what this morning's meeting
helped us identify, and really how it's going to position us for
the upcoming years that we can continue to do more and better for
our students.
00:03:32 Salvatrice
Okay. So, I'm going to share one of
mine. I'm going to share one of my moments, and then you share one
of yours. One of the moments I had was based on the conversation
that funding sources drive programming, versus need driving the
programming.
00:03:53 Salvatrice
And although we knew that, it was
really underscored this morning because we were making decisions
based on funding sources as an external organization. As a
community college, we do follow the lead of the chancellor's
office, we do follow the lead of our funding sources, but it's
always tied to students. It's always tied to
students.
00:04:19 Salvatrice
In this particular instance where
we're part of an organization that is tied to workforce development
externally, and the fact that we were trying to frame our work
around funding sources versus the need, it really just kind of hit
home for me. We may want to just pause and reexamine not only their
work, but our work, and the meaning that we find in our
work.
00:04:43 Leslie
Yeah, I like that idea because
someone had made the comment during part of the meeting that
there's a lot of people coming to this work now because there's a
lot of investment in this work, and so you're getting a lot of new
people and a lot of things are changing, but it's all about the
same thing. It's all about chasing the money, which is ... that's
the way things work. That's the way of the world, like I get
that.
00:05:04 Leslie
But that doesn't leave a lot of room
for kind of higher-order thinking or taking time to really
understand the best interest of whoever the client
is.
00:05:11 Leslie
So, for us, at a community college
level, yes, we do take the lead of the chancellor's office. Yes, we
do seek these funding sources, but we also do our due diligence in
understanding what the student needs and barriers are ahead of
time. And then we leverage those resources to address those needs
and barriers. That's the work of community colleges, that's what we
do.
00:05:31 Leslie
And so, the fact that PCC EWD is
part of a community college, like it's super important for us to
orient our work around the values of the college while we go out
and get that money, while we chase that money, as they say. But for
me, I guess, like kind of it's like a personal thing. Like this
whole idea of getting into this line of work just for the money or
chasing down money, like that's an age-old problem.
00:05:52 Leslie
We can't do the work without the
money, but the work is meaningless if you don't spend the time
reflecting and considering the larger issues. You got to make sure
that you're not continuing barriers or creating unintentional
barriers, or just promoting some systemic issues that if you don't
take time to just look at it.
00:06:11 Leslie
We do that in community college. We
do that in all of higher education, and that's something that I
think that outside agencies could do more of. And I think that
that's the value of partnering with education aside from this.
so-called talent pipeline that we all like to call it, which is
another issue for me. But I think that's the value in partnering
with education, is we're supposed to raise those questions. We're
supposed to bring those things up.
00:06:35 Salvatrice
It goes back to what we were talking
about earlier in the meeting. Well, you and I were talking about
it. We didn't really bring this up because of all the things that
you just said. Like naturally, in our work or in our environment of
community colleges, we take the time to do that.
00:06:49 Salvatrice
We take the time to unpack all of
the variables that surround - I'm going to use the term putting
talent into jobs, or developing talent into career pathways,
whichever term you want to use. Then there lies really kind of the
issue, is that this work becomes ... unless you're within a
community college, and even sometimes within community colleges, it
becomes very transactional. Why? Because the funding is driving the
work. And in order to receive more funding, that's driven by
metrics.
00:07:23 Leslie
We have to deliver
00:07:24 Salvatrice
What we deliver, but then we're not
pausing, I think as a system - I'm not talking about community
college. As a system of workforce development agencies, partners,
et cetera, we're not pausing to say, "Well, what are the true
barriers to this work? What really drives this
work?"
00:07:42 Salvatrice
At the end of the day, we're in the
people business, I'm going to use your phrase - we're in the people
business here. Like what are we doing for human impact and human
development? That's what you were talking about earlier. And I want
to explore that more.
00:07:55 Salvatrice
You mentioned the word "commodity"
in our conversation earlier this morning, share a little bit about
that.
00:08:02 Leslie
Sometimes I feel that the terms that
we use and the way we describe, we use a blanket term of workforce
instead of people or students, or we use this blanket term of
workforce or the talent pipeline, and we're trying to get talent to
and from. We treat people as if they're commodities in a sense, and
we're just trying to fill a void, and we're just trying to sell you
... for community colleges, we have a talent pipeline that we're
trying to sell.
00:08:26 Leslie
That's the language we use - we sell
the pipeline. That's what we do when we hit the streets, because
community college students are a great resource for labor and
everything else. They're coming out of these systems, educated,
skilled, talented, eager, all the things you look for in prepared
... all the things you look for in an employee.
00:08:44 Leslie
But for me, it's a fine line between
preparation and speaking on behalf of that pool, treating them like
a commodity just to get deliverables, to get metrics, to get more
money. To me, the jobs are the commodity. Why should these
students, why should these people go work for your company? What's
in it for them?
00:09:05 Leslie
Like they're asking these questions
themselves. They're like, "What's the value prop of coming to work
for your organization? What are your ethical considerations? What's
your mission statement? What good are you doing in the world? You
want, what, 40-plus hours of work from me for what?
00:09:20 Leslie
They need more - increasingly we're
seeing that people need more than a paycheck to show up, and they
don't want to come in by the way, they want to do it from home.
Like there's a lot of things that are shifting and
changing.
00:09:31 Leslie
So, one of the big kind of ... I had
two kind of aha moments this morning at this meeting, and one of
them was that, in my mind, this thing was flipped. And I'm like,
no, we shouldn't be selling the pipeline. We should be selling the
industry, because you got to look at it differently.
00:09:46 Leslie
But to go back to the earlier point
that we're talking about people, and my concern or my question
rather, is like how are we developing people throughout their
lifespan? How are we contributing to their ongoing development?
We're not doing job placement, we're not an agency, we're not an
employment agency here. Those places exist, and those places have
their own missions, and their own goals and their own
metrics.
00:10:08 Leslie
But I keep coming back to this idea
about like what do we do at the community college level as
practitioners in this workforce development ecosystem that's
different than everyone else?
00:10:20 Salvatrice
That's the million-dollar question.
Like what are we doing that's different than everyone else in this
space? I think that's our journey. I mean, let me rephrase that. I
think our journey has led us to this point where we're saying,
"Okay, we did it the traditional way. We've proceeded
traditionally. Now, it's time to, I'm not saying go against the
grain here, but maybe just try things a little bit
differently."
00:10:44 Salvatrice
I mean, you just said it right now.
You said we need to be selling the industry, not selling the
talent. Because to your point, the community colleges do a
wonderful job in my humble opinion. And this is just my opinion,
and I might have some bias around it, but community colleges do a
brilliant job.
00:11:01 Salvatrice
Our faculty do brilliant work around
preparing our students for those careers for that job. But we, as a
system, workforce system, we continue to try to sell the talent as
if the talent is not being trained or educated, or just ... do you
see where I'm going here?
00:11:28 Leslie
I do, and I want to kind of
acknowledge that, but also acknowledge that that part of our role
too, in fairness, is to gauge the needs of industry. If the
students are coming out, if the output isn't what the industry
needs, then our job and our role here on a community college is to
come back and inform curriculum, and to come back and inform the
college.
00:11:46 Leslie
Like, "Hey, they're needing these
things, we need to update our programming. We need to update our
curriculum. We need to keep up with the changing times." In that
sense, we do need to make sure that we're plugged into that and
kind of feed that back to the college.
00:11:57 Leslie
But yes, by and large they're coming
out with these good baseline skills, like the faculty are doing a
phenomenal job. To your point, our role is also just to kind of ...
not to remind you, but just to kind of, for the sake of
conversation, our role is also to inform instruction in that way,
or to inform college in that way.
00:12:14 Leslie
That's our outward-facing, turning
back in kind of lens, but I agree. Another kind of thing that came
up was ... and it's come up at other meetings too. Today was the
second time in a row with the same group actually, that I heard a
comment to the effect that we have this need in this particular
industry, and it was two different industries.
00:12:34 Leslie
And what we are having a hard time
is getting people to understand that it's more than nurses, for
example, in healthcare; we need more than nurses and frontline
workers. We need accountants, we need lawyers, we need graphic
artists, we need communications people, we need all these
things.
00:12:49 Leslie
And it came up again today in a
different industry. And I'm like that's what we should be focusing
on, is getting students to see the options. There's so many
options. They want options, they're demanding options, and there's
so many, and so maybe we just flip it a little bit like we're
selling this, look at all these things that you can do with this,
that, and the other if you get this degree or you get that
certificate, or you follow this pathway, you're going to, you know
...
00:13:13 Salvatrice
Yeah, I think that goes back to what
you said earlier about selling the industry. It's like
traditionally we think of the traditional roles within healthcare,
but there's so much more. Could we be better at showcasing those
options as demonstrating the cross-discipline work? Yes, we could
do better at that. But then that goes back to what you said,
selling the industry.
00:13:36 Salvatrice
It's both hand in hand. It informs
curriculum, that cross-discipline, curriculum design is really
important. We know that. But it's also sharing that there are some
non-traditional pathways within a very traditional sector.
Especially now with like this influx of AI. I mean, AI has always
been here. We talked about this at previous episodes, but AI has
always been around, but it certainly has informed the genetic
makeup of our newer occupations, like it's shifted
that.
00:14:09 Salvatrice
And so, there's so much more
possibility. But I kind of see our work kind of going into the next
year is just that, underscoring the value and the meaning of what
workforce development is about human development and this almost
like non-transactional narrative. That there's so much more to this
work than just bridging the gap between industry and talent. Like
there's so much more and everything in between.
00:14:41 Leslie
There's so much that happens in that
gap.
00:14:43 Salvatrice
For sure. 100%, there is, there's
quite a bit that happens. We could sit here for hours talking about
that, and addressing, again, those barriers and opportunities, but
also simultaneously thinking about how we approach the career
possibilities with our students.
00:15:03 Salvatrice
There's a lot of room for growth in
those two areas for us, because at the end of the day - and we say
this all the time, why are we here? Why is anyone that does this
work here? We're here for the student, we're here to prepare them.
We're here to enrich them with the skills that they need, both
personally and professionally to grow.
00:15:24 Salvatrice
And we have to do our job to
ensuring that we also address some of those system issues, or
system barriers, or system problems, whatever you want to call it -
that we address those openly and without hesitation, so that we
have this very holistic approach to the work, and we have a very
purpose-driven approach to the work.
00:15:51 Salvatrice
You and I have always kind of had
that conversation, these sidebar conversations about like purpose
and meaning, and it's so much more than just placing students into
jobs and upskilling the existing workforce. It's so much more than
that. And I think that now's the time for us to really kind of
explore this so much more.
00:16:09 Leslie
Yeah, I agree. And I think that in
the new year, I know we've talked about we might consider creating
opportunities to have those conversations. I think it's 100%
appropriate to have those conversations at the community college
level, at any education level. That's what we do in higher
ed.
00:16:24 Leslie
And also, I'm going to say this:
probably whatever EWD at other campuses like here, those of us
working in these spaces didn't come to them to chase the money,
most of us answered a call to action within our institutions and
found ourselves in this work. We didn't be like, "Oh, there's money
coming into EWD, let's go do that for a while."
00:16:48 Leslie
We answered a call to action. An
opportunity was presented and we took it. And so, at least I can
say that, and I don't know if you would agree with me, but I feel
like I can say that about PCC's EWD. Neither you nor myself were
like, "Hey, there's a lot of money coming in to ..." You know,
there was an opportunity, and we took it.
00:17:06 Salvatrice
I would say there was a
need.
00:17:07 Leslie
A need and a call to action. Like
the college decided that something was going to be done. And you
were doing other work, I was doing other work. You know what I
mean? Like this is the charge now. This is what we're doing now.
So, we find ourselves here.
00:17:19 Leslie
And so, I think it's absolutely
appropriate to have these conversations in these spaces, and to
create opportunity for them, and to use this platform and other
platforms at our disposal to have those conversations and encourage
dialogue.
00:17:33 Leslie
I don't expect that an outside
agency or a city or any entity like that is going to be like, "You
know what? Let's have a big conversation." They're doing their
transactional stuff. They got a lot of other things to do. Not that
they couldn't have those conversations. You don't expect them to, I
don't expect that they're going to call that meeting to order. I
feel that that's going to be in the hands of higher ed,
particularly community colleges. Especially community
colleges.
00:17:58 Salvatrice
Right. And you're right about like
we responded to a need and a call to action. I would also say those
that are in ... one could argue any line of work or any profession,
but specifically, within this arena that we work in, in higher ed
and workforce development, there's an intentional drive to
that.
00:18:18 Salvatrice
There's an intentional drive to
fulfill the mission of the institution and fulfill the mission of
our role. Maybe it's because of the lens that we see this work.
Like we see this work so much more than talent development and
filling a need gap. Like we see it as so much more.
00:18:39 Salvatrice
So, maybe that's where I'm coming
from. But being around our colleagues in higher education and our
partners, there's an intentional drive to this work. And I want to
share that intentionality. I think that's where I'm coming from,
Leslie. I want to share our intentionality around this work. That
it's not just workforce development, it's empowerment, it's
mobility, it's access, it's all the things we know.
00:19:14 Leslie
All the things that we know the
benefits of the work. We know what the benefits are. But I think to
your point, it's worth articulating and it's worth discussing and
reminding.
00:19:23 Salvatrice
And reminding. I think sometimes, we
get lost in the weeds of, like we talked about earlier - we get
lost in the weeds of the funding source. We get lost in the weeds
of even just the day-to-day stuff.
00:19:35 Leslie
Well, I was thinking about a
conversation I was overhearing, actually, I was in the bathroom and
they were having a conversation and we were all going back to the
same space, and the conversation-
00:19:42 Salvatrice
That's the best place to have
conversations.
00:19:44 Leslie
I was like, "Oh man, they're really
talking about internships and how these internships change their
lives." And this one woman was saying it was a hardship for her to
take the internship, but it changed her life. It was a hardship
because she was supporting her family.
00:19:54 Leslie
And now, we know here, that we try
to get paid internships because we view it as an equity issue and
because we don't want students to miss out on those opportunities
at network building. All those things they miss out on if they
can't afford to do a free internship.
00:20:08 Leslie
But it's worth saying that, it's
worth saying out loud, it's an equity issue. Internships have to be
paid because X, Y, and Z, because it's resonating, because people
are living it. This person probably, I'm going to guess, did her
internship many years ago, and it was a hardship. Well, she knows
that because she lived it.
00:20:24 Leslie
It's worth saying it. It's worth
saying isn't that an equity issue? Like let's frame it in today's
language. Wouldn't your life have been so much better if someone
had paid you to do that work? You wouldn't have had to sacrifice
this or that. You wouldn't have to choose what you were going to do
or ... it's worth saying this stuff.
00:20:39 Salvatrice
And also, let's just also share that
our time is invaluable. Like time is ... how do you put a price tag
on time? Using that example of that story you shared is our
students have very real responsibilities. And I'm just not talking
about our community college students, students in general. Like
they have very real responsibilities paying for their household, et
cetera, taking care of their families.
00:21:09 Leslie
Childcare.
00:21:10 Salvatrice
Childcare. And yet-
00:21:11 Leslie
There's a lot of stuff. Life
stuff.
00:21:12 Salvatrice
Life stuff. And yet we expect them
to carve out time away from that, that they will not get back at no
cost because it's taking directly away from their responsibility,
directly taking away from their livelihood, directly taking away
from the responsibilities that they have with their families and
themselves. And so, like even just that example, Leslie, for us to
be talking more about that.
00:21:41 Leslie
I would also add too, that the need
for colleges to mix up their schedules a little bit so that we can
let people have their day jobs. There's probably a lot of people
that can't take all the classes that we offer at the times we offer
them. We do have night classes, I'm not saying we don't. I'm just
saying maybe we look at that too.
00:21:57 Leslie
There's a lot of things that people
shouldn't have to make the choice between getting an education or
having this invaluable workplace experience, and paying their rent,
and X, Y, and Z. And living - how do they say on the social media?
The adulting. Which I have mixed feelings about that term, but
adulting is hard.
00:22:20 Leslie
You know what I mean? Like there's a
lot of considerations, so I think it's worth having those
conversations.
00:22:26 Salvatrice
But see, you just underscored what
we just talked about. Like it's our duty, meaning our duty as
practitioners in this space, you and I and others, that we declare
that, that we share that out. That we have real talk about that.
Because that's the non-transactional. Those are the
non-transactional things that we need to be spending time on as a
system, or that informs how funding is structured
even.
00:22:55 Salvatrice
That is a real example. That's a
real example where there's tangible solutions to, and yet I think
as a system, we tiptoe around it. Like we don't really talk about
it. Like why aren't we talking about it? Is it because we don't
have the time? Is it because we're afraid? Is it because we don't
know enough information? Is it because ... let's fill in the
blank.
00:23:19 Salvatrice
But I think that's what you and I
have been talking about. We need to do more of that because it
informs the work of higher ed, and specifically, this institution
and others. But I'm glad you brought that up because that's a real
life example of what we're talking about here.
00:23:36 Leslie
As you were talking too, I was
thinking about how other like outside agencies might handle some of
these barriers. So, think of something like transportation. So, you
have an outside agency and they're going to say, "Well, we're going
to solve this barrier by giving out bus passes, or we're providing
whatever,"
00:23:52 Leslie
And even here, we have basic needs
initiatives here on campus. All the campuses do at this point. So,
if you're having food insecurity, we have a pantry. If you have
housing ... there's different things that colleges are doing to
address those basic needs for students which is great, but outside
agencies do it too.
00:24:08 Leslie
Like how can we leverage the
resources we have to minimize the barriers? I certainly don't mean
to suggest that outside agencies aren't minimizing barriers or
trying to minimize barriers. I assume, and I've seen that in a lot
of cases, they're leveraging their resources to provide a solution.
Sometimes just providing that solution is not the same thing as
solving the problem.
00:24:29 Leslie
But that social work across the
board, providing relief is not the same as eradicating. And how do
you eradicate these big social issues? That's not the purpose of
this podcast. We'll leave that to other people to solve all those
kind of problems. But I feel like there's definitely a need to
create space to discuss the things we can-
00:24:50 Salvatrice
Well, it's our duty - it's our duty
to raise that awareness
00:24:53 Leslie
When we're talking sometimes, and I
feel like it's dramatic, but like it's a moral imperative. And it's
like, is it though? But I mean, it kind of is. It kind of is for
me. So, like it's important when you think about it. If what we do
matters, then we should take an interest in it at that
level.
00:25:07 Salvatrice
That's right. And it does, and it
does matter to us. And I know just within our own network that it
matters to others too. I think it just, to your point, just raising
the awareness and allowing space for that dialogue to happen. And I
think that we're in a really kind of unique position to do that in
the upcoming year in a variety of different ways.
00:25:31 Salvatrice
And I'm just really looking forward
to it because you and I have no problem talking about the
uncomfortable conversations. Like having uncomfortable
conversations is kind of our specialty, but it's always done in a
very tasteful way. Like I just want to be very very mindful of
that. But it's okay.
00:25:48 Salvatrice
I guess what I'm trying to say - at
the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is that it's okay. It's
okay to have these uncomfortable conversations because most of the
time, I should say, not only does it raise awareness, but it also
ignites ideation around solutions to the work, and around elements
of the work that we had may not have considered.
00:26:10 Salvatrice
It informs our work. I mean, it's
just important to have. And so, I look forward to it, Leslie. And I
suspect that you're going to have like a ton of things to talk
about.
00:26:21 Leslie
Well, I just wanted to make a point
that sometimes the conversations are only uncomfortable because we
don't think we should be having them because we're too busy
focusing on delivering. And so, we don't think it's our place to
have those conversations.
00:26:35 Salvatrice
I love that.
00:26:35 Leslie
And so, what I'm proposing is that
it's only uncomfortable because you're not used to it. And it's
absolutely appropriate to have those conversations in higher
education. It's absolutely appropriate for us to lead those
conversations for PCC to host things or to ... it's perfectly
acceptable. It's only uncomfortable because we're not used to
it.
00:26:55 Leslie
And as far as outside agencies, I
can't speak to outside agencies what their threshold is for
uncomfortable conversations. But I think that in terms of
initiating the conversation, facilitating the conversation, I feel
like it's not uncomfortable for us because it makes
sense.
00:27:09 Leslie
But it might be uncomfortable for
other people only because they don't think they're supposed to or
because they're focused on hitting those metrics, securing that
funding, sustaining those programs, which are so often like we
heard today, understaffed, underfunded, overworked.
00:27:24 Leslie
Trying to do meaningful work, but
having a hard time kind of treading water is what happens in so
many different areas, so many different industries in so many
different agencies. So, you hear it all the time. People are trying
to do a lot with a little, and constantly trying to get
more.
00:27:44 Salvatrice
I'll tell you what, that's a
beautiful way to like sunset this conversation because like you
have put a call to action for all of us. Those listening and you
and I, is like let's have the uncomfortable
conversations.
00:27:56 Leslie
Yeah, and what are
they?
00:27:57 Salvatrice
And what are they?
00:27:58 Leslie
You tell us. Tell us what those
uncomfortable conversations are. I mean, we have our opinions, but
these are just our opinions, these are just our observations. We
went to a meeting, we had some thoughts. We're sharing them with
you. We've hardly exhausted any topics. We're just proposing that
maybe there's a conversation we can have around some bigger
issues.
00:28:15 Salvatrice
That's right. Well, I think that's a
great way to not only sunset this conversation and reflect upon the
year and three things: reflection, position us for greatness in
2024 to have these uncomfortable conversations so that it informs
our work and our duty here in this space.
00:28:33 Salvatrice
And then lastly, what a great way.
It's positive, informative, and there's certainly a call to action
for us, not only just to the listener, but obviously for us, you
and I because we're always working on the next, on the next, on the
next, on the next. But I love the fact that you've asked our
listener to tell us, tell us what's up. Tell us what the
conversations we should be having. Beautiful. Well, thank you so
much.
00:28:59 Leslie
Thank you. Thanks for letting me
think through my thoughts from the day. It's always nice to reflect
and providing space for that. Hopefully, folks listening don't
wonder why we're working it out here.
00:29:10 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:29:11 Leslie
But there's still stuff to
share.
00:29:13 Salvatrice
There certainly is. There certainly
is. Well, until next time, my friend.
00:29:16 Leslie
Thank you so much.
00:29:20 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the
Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite
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Tuesday.
00:29:29 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking
on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate,
partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to
connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena
City College wish you saftey and wellness.