Sep 27, 2022
We have a responsibility to make
the college a lifelong learning engine. We have a responsibility to
make higher education something that people don't just do once at
the start of their career, and then never really return to, other
than for football games and donations.
Like that can't be the
relationship that we have with people after they graduate. The
relationship that we have with people after they graduate has to be
one that continues to be based in learning access. It has to be
continued to be based in value.
The workforce landscape is
rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep
up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our
communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an
But we need to understand how to
change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are
headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice
President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City
College, and host of this podcast.
And I'm Christina Barsi,
producer and co-host of this podcast.
And we are starting the
conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like
how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable,
and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and
PCC students in the workforce.
We at Pasadena City College,
want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our
students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be
once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions,
and the community as a whole.
We believe change happens when
we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and
this is the Future of Work.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to
the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo.
Today, we will learn about The EvoLLLution, one of the best
platforms for post-secondary professionals to share their insights
through a non-traditional lens.
We will also talk about what
topics have been the most popular since the start of the pandemic,
and how other higher education professionals can really contribute
to the platform.
With that said, we would like to
welcome Amrit Ahluwalia the Editor-in-Chief at the EvoLLLution, a
modern campus illumination. For over 11 years, Amrit has worked at
The EvoLLLution, an online newspaper, exclusively published by, and
for those who understand higher education.
Amrit works personally with
every contributor at the EvoLLLution to produce the content that
has supported the site's rise to becoming the top resource for
non-traditional higher education. He regularly speaks on topics
related to the change in higher education environment at
conferences across Canada and the United States, and advises
colleges and university leaders to help frame strategic visions for
their institutions. We welcome Armrit, how are
Hey Salvatrice, I'm well, how
Good. Good to chat with you
Yeah, absolutely. It was a lot
of fun last time. I'm so glad we got the chance to connect again so
That's right, that's right. Now,
the tables have turned. I'm interviewing you,
Yeah, no kidding. Sorry, I won't
ask you questions.
Well, let's get started. I know
very well who you are and what The EvoLLLution is, but I always
love to ask this question to our practitioners out there and those
within this arena, is really share with us kind of what led you to
this work and what led you in journalism, and why education, why
did you pick education as a point of interest?
For sure. Well, I've always
loved storytelling. Storytelling's always been something that's
been interesting to me. And I think storytelling is the best way
for us to start normalizing some of the things that may seem a
little odd or might seem a little outside the norms. It's through
stories that people can really start to connect and interact with
ideas that are a little outside their scope.
So, my own story is actually not
mine. It's my mom's. I'm based in Canada. Both my parents are new
immigrants. I'm the first generation of my family born in Canada.
And my father came over in the early eighties, late seventies/early
eighties to earn his doctorate. My mom and dad got married in the
mid-eighties. My mom is from India in Bombay, so she came over as
Now, she had her bachelor's in
chemistry from the University of Bombay. She'd worked for five
years as an air hostess with British Airways, loved math, loved
science. You don't need me to tell you she's super smart, but
super, super smart. So , she gets to Canada, goes to the employment
office and says "This is my background. This is what I'm good
Obviously, like well-trained in
crisis management, well-trained in customer engagement, customer
service, like all these soft skills. Plus, she's got a technical
background. And they said, "Cool, so you could probably work at a
diner because you are a stewardist."
She was like, "Well, no, that's
not a thing that's interesting to me." So, she went, she got her
accounting licenses, she became a certified accountant. She
eventually got a job at the Federal Government of Canada. She
worked for 35 some years at various executive levels within the
Canadian Federal Public Service.
And the entire time continued to
take courses to first, to pursue her own interest, to advance her
career. I actually remember she earned a graduate-level credential
in accounting when I was three. And she didn't do convocation. We
went to Vermont.
I distinctly remember that her
entire life, she was a non-traditional student. As she started to
approach retirement, she started doing professional photography
certifications because that was something that interested her as
maybe a post retirement job.
So, my story isn't my story. My
story is how do I make life easier for people like my mom. The
hurdles that she had to overcome to just do the basics are
something that I think those kinds of obstacles exist for so many
people. Both in Canada and the United States, these are economies
that are built on immigrant communities. These are economies that
are built on social mobility.
So, having the opportunity as I
do to highlight the work of folks that work with non-traditional
learners, to work with folks that develop programming and develop
institutional divisions, design specifically for workforce
development and socioeconomic mobility, is something that I take a
lot of pride in and kind of comes back again to that idea of
The more stories from people
like you that we can share, the more opportunity we have for folks
that might see higher education through a very specific lens to see
that work through a much broader lens that can serve so many more
people than the people we tend to serve.
Yeah, I really love that.
Parallel stories, the first generation and I too, have an interest.
I never realized that my interest in higher education was going to
be so strong. I never saw myself in higher education until you just
start to look at what's around you and then look, you just grow up.
So, you grow up and you start to say like, "Gosh my career has
taken me here."
And I'm so incredibly grateful
just like you are to be in this space because I too, first gen,
parents valued education because they came to the States as farmers
and your parents were extremely educated coming into this country,
my parents were not. And so, they said, "Look we want a better
life." Both parents want a better life for their
So, to share that story and for
the EvoLLLution to kind of be that source of that narrative and the
storytelling and how do we innovate within higher ed, how do we
cater to the non-traditional student is really, really important.
And I'm super happy that the EvoLLLution has really kind of taken
pride around that, and saying, "Look like this needs to be our
For those who don't understand
what really the EvoLLLution is, tell us a little bit more about the
EvoLLLution and how it kind of got started, because that'll be
helpful to kind of frame this conversation a little
Yeah, it's valuable context and
it's something that I'm super, super proud of. So, first of all,
for those of you listening, it doesn't come across in the audio. We
spell EvoLLLution with three Ls, and the Ls stand for Lifelong
Learning, which is an insider-
Oh, I didn't know
Yeah, that's why we have three
Ls, is for Lifelong Learning. So, we had the concept in 2011, we
launched in 2012. So, I was the founding editor of the publication.
Basically, we were launched by a company that's now called Modern
Campus. And at the time, it was because there was no one really
talking about what's happening in the continuing workforce
If we think back to 2011, 2012,
the economy was just coming out of the recession, we were in that
sort of early recovery phase. So, all those students who'd come
into higher education because they'd lost their jobs, because they
were in a challenging economic period, all of a sudden, the job
market was opening up, they were going back to
But at the same time, the state
appropriations that had been cut drastically over the course of the
recession hadn't recovered yet. So, you had this period where sort
of higher educations call it magic carpets started to descend a
little bit because during that period where state appropriations
were declining, enrollments were growing so that the tuition and
the fees kind of made up that delta.
So, 2011, folks are going back
to work. And we had this concept that we wanted to give people a
space outside of conferences to talk about the things that they
found interesting in the continuing ed world. You know, those
conversations that you have in the hallways and interesting ideas
for programming, interesting ideas for support and student
services. So, we wanted to make that a 24/7
I distinctly remember this;
about five months after we launched, we thought it would be a good
idea if we knew who our subscribers were. So, we'd been running for
about five months, we were still a very fledging publication. We
were fortunate in that a lot of people who really could have
published their work anywhere decided to trust
We're talking folks like Kathy
Sandin, who at the time was the Dean of Extension at UCLA. Folks
like Adi Beda from UC San Diego, Wayne Smutz, who at the time was
the Dean of World Campus at Penn State. We had some phenomenal
people share their perspectives.
So, we looked at our subscriber
base, we thought it would be folks from the continuing ed world,
and as it turned out, we were serving largely provosts and CIOs and
presidents. And we thought that was kind of
So, we started to look into it
and realized, well, at a time when higher education institutions
were struggling for operating expenses, were struggling to generate
enrollments, were starting for the first time in the industry's
history to recognize the concept of competition - we were
publishing articles by continuing ed leaders talking about what it
looked like to compete for enrollments, how student-centricity can
be a differentiator, why programming needs to be relevant to
student needs, why workforce outcomes are valuable to academic
And I think what crystallized
for me at that moment and what's kind of driven our editorial
philosophy since then, is that the higher education industry can
operate like a business while still benefiting the learners it
serves. We've always looked at that as a dichotomy, as a binary.
Either you're a business or you're serving learners, but you can't
be a business that serves learners.
And if you look at most
businesses, it is in their best interest to treat their consumers
with respect. It's in their best interest to serve the needs of
their consumers. And then there's benefit to that in terms of
revenue and lifetime value of engaging that customer for long-term.
And there's no reason why those principles shouldn't work in higher
education as well.
So, that idea really started to
take root at that time when we were looking at our subscriber base,
because we realized that those are the exact people who were
starting to pay attention to the publication. It wasn't just other
continuing ed leaders who wanted to know about continuing ed. It
was senior executives who were trying to understand how they could
change their mindset about what the institution could
What a beautiful way to kind of
pivot into something that you weren't really
It's so funny because you
mentioned yourself, you didn't see your career leading to
continuing ed or to higher ed. I certainly didn't as well. That was
a surprising twist. It was a twist of fate. And I think if you talk
to almost anyone in continuing education, they wouldn't say that
"Well, when I was five-years-old and someone asked me what I wanted
to do and I wanted to be a Dean of Continuing Education," like
that's not a thing.
Most of us found our way here by
circumstance. But then when we landed and when we found our spot,
it's impossible not to fall in love with this
Right. And it feels like home
because we can relate.
Yeah. It's very human. It is
kind of interesting as you start to think about like how folks wind
up in this space, how folks build a passion for this work. And
that's really a lot of what we're doing right now. In fact, we're
on our podcast, we're about to launch a series with institutional
presidents who came out of continuing education.
And the idea there is basically
looking at this exact concept of why is higher education starting
to pivot to becoming more like a massive continuing ed department?
And it comes back to this core idea that there's DNA within CE
about how to treat learners, how to think about the institution,
how to think about the department with a mix of student-centricity
and a business lens and trying to find that middle
So, anyway, that was a very long
way of saying we launched the EvoLLLution because we wanted to
normalize some of this stuff that at the time, was really out of
left field. It was really stuff that no one was comfortable talking
about. It was stuff that you'd say, oh, students are customers. But
you'd say it in a hushed voice and you'd really make sure you knew
who was around you when you were saying it.
And as a publication, we didn't
want to have the debate. We wanted to come in and say, "Yes,
students are customers, what does that mean?" That was our guiding
philosophy for years. And it still is to this day, is that we
believe that students are customers and everything we publish is
written with that assumption already
So, now, it's a question of,
well, what do you do? When your students are customers, what does
that mean in terms of how do you structure services? How do you do
pricing? How do you do financial aid? How do you credential them?
What kind of lifecycle do your programs need to run on? How do you
do program review cycles? How do you interact with the
All these things are through the
lens of your student is a customer, and - as opposed to trying to
debate whether or not our students are customers. And again, I
don't think that's a controversial view anymore, but I think it's
because publications like ours just decided that we were tired of
the argument and kind of just moved past it.
Right. It forces us to examine
our approach differently. Even though when we say, for example -
I'm going to use your example about customer versus student. Yes,
the customer is the student and the student is the customer. But
just in the language that we use, in the words that we choose,
forces us to examine like a holistic approach.
So, when we say maybe just the
word "student," it's this very transactional, it's one-sided.
Sometimes, that's how I feel. Like it just feels very kind of
linear, super linear. But when we use the word "customer," as you
did, and coming from the private sector myself, it forces us to
examine the experience holistically. And so, that we're looking at
things through a lens of everything you just
We use product cycle, program
cycle, customer service - all those things, all the wraparound
things that we talk about.
It's important. It's a topic
that's fresh on my mind. So, this is our 10-year
Thank you. We published our
first article in January of 2012. And so, a lot of my time over the
past few months is just out of nostalgia, kind of going back
through our archives a little bit and looking at some of the older
articles that I feel have really helped to establish our vision.
And there was a piece by Heather Chakiris, and she's now at
Excelsior College in upstate New York.
At the time that she wrote this,
she was the Chief Student Experience Officer for UCLA Extension.
And she was writing about the idea of how do you create a
high-quality customer experience in a post-secondary environment.
I'd encourage everyone to go and read the article themselves, and
I'm just going to share one thought of hers with
And she took on the idea of what
does students as customers mean? Because oftentimes, when you bring
that up, the first thing that someone would say back is the
customer's always right - well that doesn't work here. And you'd go
into this diatribe about, oh, they're customers outside the
classroom but not inside the classroom or
And she said, "Look, forget
that. "Treating students as customers (and this is a quote) means
we don't force them through arbitrary processes that are
intentionally complex. And that concept has absolutely guided the
way that I've thought about this topic for nearly a decade. Because
that's it. That's it in a nutshell. It's just a question of
That's right. And speaking of
content, help me understand; so the EvoLLLution publishes these
articles. How are you vetting the content? You know, because anyone
and anyone can say anything. But to stay true to the mission of
EvoLLLution and true to its core mission, how are you vetting the
It's an interesting question
because we think of ourselves as a big opinions page. And to a
certain extent, we are not a neutral party. I recognize that in the
world of journalism, there's an expectation that a journalist is
supposed to be neutral. And I think you could look at any
publication to know that that's not at all the
But we are a lens. So, we have a
perspective, we have an opinion, which is we believe the higher
education space fundamentally has to change to serve the
demographic it serves. We believe there's an enrollment cliff on
the horizon that's backed by research. We believe that treating
students like customers is the best way for post-secondary
institutions to meet the crux of their mission.
So, we do look for contributors
that speak to that broad philosophy through their particular lens.
We tend to reach out to folks, we tend to find folks, and we've
built a contributor community, which by the way, has about 2,500
now, higher education leaders from colleges and universities across
North America, an incredibly diverse cross-section of
post-secondary institutions represented in our contributor
And the goal is how many diverse
opinions can we find that share different points of view on the
same topic? And the more layers that we can add to the diversity of
our contributor base, all speaking to different parts of the same
core, the more we can actually start to form a vision of what that
core looks like.
And in aggregate to a certain
extent, I'd be interested actually to do a word cloud study on
every piece ever published in the EvoLLLution because it would be
fascinating to me, to see what kinds of terms it would actually be.
It's an incredible source of data. There's some 4,600 articles that
we've published over the past decade.
So, vetting, we don't do peer
review, we don't have a double-blind review process. Everything
that gets published comes through myself and my associate
Excellent. Is there anything
percolating out there? Is there anything percolating that you said,
"Hey Salvatrice, we really ought to be paying attention to this? It
just hasn't been ..."
Yeah, I'd say like from a trends
perspective, there's some fascinating stuff happening. And it's
frustrating because if I think about like ... again, I'm feeling
very nostalgic today. Like if I think about like some of the stuff
our publication's done, like we were publishing about badging in
2012. We published about competency-based learning in
Like we tended to be well ahead
of the curve. And I think what's fascinating about where we are
today is that we're seeing some of these ideas that were super,
super peripheral becoming core concepts for what the future
institution's going to look like.
So, what I think is really
interesting about where we are right now is how we're starting to
define these ideas that have historically been experimental and how
we're starting to bring those ideas into the core of the
institution. So, the question becomes a balancing act between
what's the thing that made that idea necessary in the first place,
and what's the thing that's going to make it legitimate in the eyes
of the academy.
And that idea of legitimacy,
that idea of defining what rigor looks like, what quality looks
like, what a credential means, are some of these topics that I
think are going to absolutely control the conversation in the
higher education space for probably the next five to seven
Because we recognize that
credentialing needs to change, and we recognize that
micro-credentials and that competency-based credentials and
alternative approaches to assessing and awarding knowledge, we
recognize that these are becoming increasingly important. We
recognize that it's becoming increasingly
The question is how do we strike
that balancing act between the necessity of launching them in the
first place, and the necessity of creating something that makes
sense in the context of what the institution does. So, what I think
is fascinating right now is this year, and you know my background's
more the continuing ed world. That's where our publication is
I've been to two conferences
this year about micro-credentialing where there were a combined
seven people at both conferences that are from the continuing ed
world. And it was mostly registrars getting together to talk about
how do we do micro-credentialing. And I did a session at both
conferences, those basically saying on each of your campuses, I
guarantee you there's a department that's been doing
micro-credentialing for 30 years because that's the crux of what CE
is all about.
So, I think the future, the next
5 to 10 years is going to be shaped by a de-siloing of the
post-secondary institution of an intentional internal collaboration
between the administrative structures that have defined how the
institution operates and the continuing ed world that's had to
balance both development, delivery, and management of programming.
Because in the main campus, those three functions tend to be
separated. They tend to be siloed out because they're massive
For the continuing ed world,
we've really asked the same people to do all three of those things
simultaneously. So, I think it's going to be fascinating to see how
we navigate that transition of responsibility. How do we navigate
the transition of enrollment management responsibilities from a
staff team that's very consumer-oriented to one that may be more
process-oriented. And how do we find a middle ground between a
customer service mentality and maybe a more process-oriented
I think what we're going to see
is that the institutions themselves are going to start to seem to
feel more like what continuing ed divisions feel like, because the
students we're going to be serving will be increasingly older.
They'll be more and more experienced as consumers, and they'll
recognize that they operate in a marketplace, that they have
flexibility and freedom of choice that they've never had
We just went through the first
ever recession in the last hundred or so years where enrollment in
post-secondary education did not go up. And it's not that people
weren't looking for education access, it's that they went to boot
camps and they went to YouTube. They got credentialed in totally
different ways than we've ever really experienced
And we tried to run a playbook
that we ran during the great recession and said "Oh-oh." So, I
think, higher education in general - this is not a micro trend,
this is going to be a macro trend. I think we're going to see the
post-secondary space look and feel more like a continuing ed
Now, do you think that that was
forced due to the pandemic? Or do you think that that was a natural
- we were already kind of going in that way?
Yeah, I think we were already
going that way. See, this is the problem; the pandemic is one
thing, the stay-at-home order is something else. It's a related
thing, but people getting sick didn't lead to the transformation of
higher ed. It was the stay-at-home order. Because that changed the
way that we thought about our interaction with physical spaces. And
I think like the trend of online learning had been progressing for
There's an organization that was
doing an annual report on uptake and enrollments in distance
programming. And every year for the 10 years they'd been tracking
this, the percentage of learners that had been going online was
ticking upwards steadily. Now, obviously, it went to a hundred
percent in 2020. You can probably disregard that
But up to that point, it was
showing that about half of students were already hybrid students in
that way. They were taking some distance and some on premise. So,
on the one hand, we'd already been moving in this direction of
students seeing their options as being national, global. But I
think what the pandemic did was accelerate the trend of people
looking to alternatives.
Because for the most part, you
had people out of work who really had no business being out of
work. The stay-at-home orders led to the greatest spike in
unemployment in the history of either of our nations. More people
were unemployed in the month and a half after the stay-at-home
orders were issued than were unemployed in the entirety of the
So, when you think about that in
context, like that is a massive foundational shift in the way that
people spend their time. And again, these aren't people who could
have seen that coming. This wasn't a thing that was slowly boiling
over time; that was pandemic, stay-at-home order, you don't have a
So, what folks were looking for
was very different. Folks were looking for very short-term
offerings that were going to help them get to a job. And in that
one year, we saw the percentage of adults considering education who
preferred short-term alternative credentials go from 50% in 2019,
to 68% in 2020. That is a massive, massive shift in the way that
consumers are thinking.
From half to two-thirds in one
year, and that largely came because that group of people suddenly
needed short-term options to get that new job, to get that job they
could do at a distance or work remotely that wasn't really affected
by the pandemic that they didn't need to be in a physical space to
So, I think where before we'd
talk about the short-term credentialing space and we'd say, well,
the consumer doesn't really understand it - I don't think that's
the case anymore. I think consumers have a much clearer vision of
the kinds of education offerings that are out there than they might
have had once before. And it's incumbent upon post-secondary
institutions, especially public post-secondary institutions, to
fulfill our missions by making those kinds of options available to
If people are saying they want
short-term outcomes-oriented learning offerings, then it's a
responsibility of the public postsecondary institution as having a
community responsibility to fulfill that need. And if that means
like we're going to create something that's stackable so that when
that individual has a need for further education, they can come
And if it means we're going to
offer it as one-off because that's what the community needs, that's
great too. But we can't just seed an entire sector to the private
sector and say, "Well, we don't do that so we're not going to do
that." That's not how public organization of any type should
And having said that, are you
finding that there's an opportunity and/or (maybe they're one of
the same) an issue kind of coming out of this - I'm going to call
it stay-at-home order because you made it very clear. I like the
way you separated that.
So, coming out of this
stay-at-home order where the world's kind of coming back - the
world did come back, but it's going back a little bit slower.
Anything pressing that you're saying, "Hey, Salvatrice, we need to
address this" within higher education based on what your findings
and contributors are.
And this is a question we've
been asking folks over the past year or so. I am very worried that
this next generation is going to be very, very nervous about online
Yeah. Now, this is flying in the
face of everything I said five seconds ago. You have an entire
generation from the age of 4 to the age of 23 now, who for a year
of their life had to completely change the way they interacted with
And that transition was not to
what we in the higher education space would consider high-quality
online learning. There was no facilitated instructor to learner or
learner to instructure participation or interaction. There was no
facilitated learner-to-learner, peer-to-peer interaction. It was
lectures on Zoom.
And if the memes are to be
believed on Reddit or whatnot, it was kids being disciplined in
their own houses for drinking water because they were on Zoom
during a class. That's not a positive online learning experience.
And what I'm genuinely nervous about is you'll have an entire
generation of digital natives who fundamentally don't think online
learning works, because what they were exposed to was really bad
quality remote education.
So, that I'd say, is something
that we need to take very seriously as a sector, is how do we
reintroduce that generation to high-quality, well-defined,
well-structured, consciously built online programming that does all
those great things that we know online programming can do. Absolute
worst-case scenario is that we have an entire generation of digital
natives who are more comfortable with technology than any
Move forward and say, "That's
all good, but for the learning part, it has to be in classrooms."
Like it would limit their capacity to expand, to upscale, to
reskill. It would limit their access to education so massively that
I think it would be a disservice to our industry. And beyond that,
it would mean a return to the highly regional approaches to
education, which are incredibly valuable in some circumstances, but
also, create this insularity of what we consider
We're starting to move to a
point now where you can look at access to education as being either
regional or global, depending on what an individual looks for at a
point in time. And the access to both is what makes it so
interesting that you can get local context on a global learning
opportunity or that you can get global access to learning that you
otherwise wouldn't have.
So, as we're creating this like
balancing between global access to education for those who want it,
and local access to high-quality learning opportunities, I think at
the same time, colleges and universities are in a position where
they can start seeing how learners are being engaged with at other
Because our value proposition
isn't just the offering of programming, it's not just access to
learning opportunities - it's the experience that goes around it.
It's our capacity to engage students, it's our capacity to build
relationships with those learners.
It's our capacity to maybe take
programming or take knowledge that's accessible in one place and
making it contextual to those who are in our neighborhoods. So,
that's where I think is the power of online learning can really
come from, is how do we create local context for global learning?
And by the same token, how do we create local access for folks who
need to be served?
So, that's where I think there's
so much power to what online learning can do, and it's really
important that we find a way to bridge that gap for all those kids
who might have had a really bad experience with online programming
over the past few years.
This is the Future of Work
Podcast and you've given these beautiful golden nuggets of
information, and I feel like they're little treasures and we can
talk for hours, and I know that we'll continue this dialogue at
But I wanted to kind of propose
this question to you, is if there's one thing you'd want our
listener to understand about the future of work and where we need
to be within higher education - we just continue to mold and evolve
- what would that one thing be?
For sure. It's a simple concept
that I'm going to explain unnecessarily complicatedly. Computing
power doubles every 18 months. The concept in Moore's law; as
computer processing power doubles, the capacity for tasks that were
once manual can be automated, and what human work looks like starts
to change fundamentally.
So, in this environment where
access to learning has to be shorter term, the future of work I
think is going to be defined by more consistent access to
upskilling and reskilling. The structure, the definition of
human-specific work is going to be constantly
I think if there's one thing
that folks take away after listening to this episode, it's that we
have a responsibility to make the college a lifelong learning
engine. We have a responsibility to make higher education something
that people don't just do once at the start of their career, and
then never really return to other than football games and
donations. Like that can't be the relationship that we have with
people after they graduate.
The relationship that we have
with people after they graduate has to be one that continues to be
based in learning access. It has to be continued to be based in
value. That's our value proposition. That's the impact that
post-secondary institutions can have on their communities in an
environment where there's fewer and fewer 18-year-olds every
That's where I think we start to
see a change in the way that people interact with learning. So, if
there's one thought to take away, it's look at your own
institution, look at your own environment, look at even if you're
coming from industry, look at your own relationship with local
post-secondary institutions and ask yourself, what's one thing that
we could do to make this space better for adults. That's in a
nutshell, it's how do we make upskilling and reskilling more part
of what we do.
You're absolutely right. It is
simple, but yet very complex when we've got multiple gadgets kind
of running this engine, and we really appreciate
This has been such a lovely,
enthusiastic, high-energy conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed our
dialogue today, Amrit. As I said, I'm sure that we'll have more of
For our listener, if they wanted
to connect with you and learn more about the EvoLLLution or
potentially even contribute to the EvoLLLution, what's the best way
to do that?
Yeah, absolutely. Visit
evolllution.com. That's again, EvoLLLution with three Ls dot com.
We publish every business day, so you'll always see there's
something new or different on there. Please do subscribe on the
sidebar. If you go to our evolllution.com homepage, on the sidebar,
there's a tab that says "get the newsletter."
We send a newsletter out every
Monday that just kind of recaps the stuff we published over the
past week. And yeah, you can absolutely contribute to the
EvoLLLution. Again, visit evolllution.com. There's a contribute
link. You can also feel free to shoot an email to info@evolllution
. com. And yeah, we're more than happy to explore whatever topics
are top of mind.
So, please do get in touch. It's
a contributor-run publication. We are just a conduit, so feel free
to reach out at any time.
Excellent. Thank you so much.
Now, get back to work, Amrit.
Hey, thank you so much for
having me. This was so much fun.
Alright, have a good one. Thank
you so much. We'll chat soon.
For sure. Bye
Thank you for listening to the
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All of us here at the Future of
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