May 9, 2023
00:00:00 Leslie
I would be really interested in knowing what other
colleges have to say, and I think that as we think about our role
as conveners in the region through the LARC, I think that it's
appropriate that we have that conversation in that space as well to
get that assessment of the landscape for other colleges.
00:00:17 Leslie
Like what are they doing? What CRMs are they using?
Are there recommendations? What are best practices? And then
developing a bigger model that is reflective of the input of all
the different colleges, then we can push it, then we can replicate
it, then we can train for it, then we can create trainings around
that.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and
educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing
students before they enter the workforce to make our communities
and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:52 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so
that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even
get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:04 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic
and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this
podcast.
00:01:12 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this
podcast.
00:01:16 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future
of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with
industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our
highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the
workforce.
00:01:30 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in
closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what
the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a
conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the
policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a
whole.
00:01:50 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and
it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of
Work.
00:02:01 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice your host, and I'm
joined today by my friend and colleague in our division, Ms. Leslie
Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Leslie, welcome to the
show again.
00:02:16 Leslie
Thank you, good to be here. How are you?
00:02:19 Salvatrice
Very good, this is now episode two of our solos, and
I'm really digging the direction that we're going here, and having
these candid conversations, you and I, that really share with our
listeners what goes on in our brains and some of the things that
we're exposed to and dealing with, and how we kind of come up with
some solutions to the madness. So, I'm really liking it, I hope
you're excited about it. I'm excited about today's topic.
00:02:44 Leslie
I think so. Today's topic is good. I think we did
apprenticeships last time and this time we're doing employer
engagement, and that's a broad subject. We could talk about that
for hours, but we don't have hours, so ...
00:02:53 Salvatrice
We certainly don't.
00:02:54 Leslie
Maybe we should focus on the topic again.
00:02:56 Salvatrice
Yeah, so where do we start? Like where do we start
with such a large topic of employer engagement that has so many
moving parts?
00:03:03 Leslie
The first thing I always do is, what is employer
engagement? And I think there's two things that come to mind when
you think of that name. Either people think about how as an
employer you engage your employees through various tactics and
practices. Like that's the first thing that comes to mind when the
average person, I think probably thinks about employer
engagement.
00:03:19 Leslie
But in our world, it refers to something else. It
refers to the process of building and maintaining relationships
with various stakeholders. And so, it involves employers, it
involves institutes of higher education, it involves agencies and
things like that. Maybe we start with that kind of understanding of
what we talk about, what we mean by employer engagement when we
talk about employer engagement.
00:03:39 Salvatrice
Great, when we talk about the employer engagement, for
me, I hear you say that, and then I immediately think my goodness,
it's so fragmented. The way in which we do that varies so much
between - I mean, even if we took a look at the community college
landscape, it's very different from one college to the next for a
number of different reasons.
00:04:01 Salvatrice
And so, it only makes sense that our employer is like,
"Whoa, how do I do this? How do I do this in the most impactful
way? And also, what could I possibly leverage from a community
college?" Let's start there.
00:04:14 Salvatrice
And so, I mean, we've worked on a model, we've been
tinkering with a local employer engagement model for a long time,
and maybe, merits kind of talking through that and why it's worked
for us and why our model can then be shared across multiple
community colleges for the sole purpose of keeping things
consistent and having the continuity of communications between a
community college and an employer.
00:04:44 Leslie
I think that that's a good strategy. I think that the
employer engagement strategies in general involve different
components and why it seems fragment or why it may be fragmented is
because there's so many different nuanced pieces to it, and it's
happening at different colleges, and it involves people first and
foremost.
00:04:59 Leslie
And because it involves people, then you're going to
have personal approaches. It's about building and maintaining
relationships, there are certain soft skills involved in that, that
require a certain honing. You're going to have as many different
approaches to that work as you are going to have people doing
it.
00:05:16 Leslie
And if you have 19 community colleges, we'll just talk
about our regional alone. If you have 19 community colleges, you
have maybe at minimum, 19 points of contact for that work. But
probably more at each campus, there's different areas. I know for
us, for example, we have different points of contact for employer
engagement.
00:05:33 Leslie
You and I do employer engagement, our job developers
do employer engagement, our Freeman Center people do employer
engagement to an extent when they're putting on career fairs. Even
some faculty do employer engagement when they're trying to have
industry relationships. So, there's a lot of different people that
connect with employers.
00:05:49 Leslie
So, I think it's important to, yes, identify a model,
but also, really dig down into the different pieces and what it all
means. There's marketing involved, there's soft skills that you
need to train for, and then there's best practices and how you go
about it and when to know when you're going too far or when you're
not doing enough, or a realistic expectation of how long it takes
to build a relationship with an employer. Are we talking about that
too, right?
00:06:14 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:06:14 Leslie
So, there's a lot of things. So, when you say it's
fragment, I'm like, "Yeah, but kind of necessarily so," because
it's different people doing it, and different people have different
approaches. So, I guess the question is can we create, can it be
replicated? Can we create one model to go by, or can that work? I
think that's an interesting concept.
00:06:32 Salvatrice
And just thinking about other additional variables on
the structure of that college or ... at the end of the day, you
mean you hit the nail right on the head. We're in the people
business. Like employer engagement is all about people and
relationship building. It relies so heavily on the college's
ability to have someone with that skillset to build those
relationships, the soft skills that you were talking about.
00:06:55 Salvatrice
So, it makes me wonder, going back to your last
comment, can our model be replicated? Well, I would even push it a
step further, can our model not only be replicated but customized
based on the talent assets and other assets that that college
has?
00:07:11 Leslie
That's an interesting point, and something you said
earlier. You said the value of community college students to
employers, like that's a marketing piece. Like selling the
pipeline, we talk about that, selling the pipeline, that's a
marketing piece. But there also has to be value to the
colleges.
00:07:25 Leslie
So, the people that do this work know that you need to
have employer involvement, and they're doing employer engagement.
Maybe they're not even calling it employer engagement. Are there
dedicated employer engagement teams on these campuses? Maybe
not.
00:07:38 Leslie
So, if the colleges aren't seeing the value in the
work or defining, identifying, and devoting resources to the work,
then doesn't matter how good the model is if no one's there to buy
it, or no one's there to buy it rather.
00:07:49 Leslie
So, we want to sell the value to employers, but we
also need to sell the value of employer engagement as a product to
the colleges and their staff. Because people are doing it, they're
doing it. But I go back to this idea that we might be suggesting
it's fragmented. I'm not saying that in a bad way, I'm saying maybe
necessarily so because of the way it is.
00:08:11 Salvatrice
So, I feel like you just said, we need to even go back
even further and fundamentally develop the value proposition, of
why this is so important to us as a system and then as a system,
most importantly, to a local community college, we forget.
00:08:29 Leslie
Yeah, so certain areas of the college have defined
efforts, so you have transfer and outreach. They know what they're
doing and they know why they're doing it, and they're people that
work in those departments and they do that work and there's for a
reason.
00:08:40 Leslie
Think about like your advancements or your foundations
or those areas. They're reaching out with the explicit purpose of
raising money and creating those funds or whatever. So, they know
why they're reaching out, they know what they're doing, they have
plans and they do it. I'm guessing it's the same thing, for other
areas doing employer engagement in different ways.
00:08:59 Leslie
But is there a dedicated place for that? No, I think
that you and I would argue that that place should live with an
economic and workforce development or functional equivalent
programs at other colleges. It's EWD for us, and so, we would want
that to live under EWD, we'd probably seat it in the Freeman Center
for Career and Outreach, that would make sense in our mind I guess
for the structure.
00:09:20 Leslie
But other colleges may not have that. First of all,
other colleges don't have their career services under economic and
workforce development, a lot of them are under student services.
So, again, I go back to this idea of replicating a model. We need
to know what exists first and if there's a place for that model to
live. And if not, then I think we start there.
00:09:39 Salvatrice
You know what this kind of makes me think about what
if we were to do a case study using our work as a study point, and
so that we can address all these things, so that other colleges
instead of saying, "Well look, this model works for us, so
therefore, by default should work for you because we all have
access to the same funding, yada, yada, yada," right?
00:09:58 Leslie
Yeah, I'm interested in what other people are doing
too. How are other people doing it? What can we learn?
00:10:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:10:03 Leslie
We don't know what we don't know, we say that all the
time. They may be doing great stuff.
00:10:08 Salvatrice
How do we get to know what - first of all, how do we
share it? But then even more importantly, how do we get to know
what other people are doing or what our colleagues across other
colleges are doing that's really working for them.
00:10:21 Salvatrice
I mean, we like our model, do we have iterations of
our model? Of course, and we've been iterating our model for some
time because to your point earlier, people change, talent changes,
the landscape of our economy changes, et cetera, et cetera, but
there's got to be others doing the same work.
00:10:35 Salvatrice
So, if we were to maybe develop a study of some sort,
I don't even know what it would be called - a study of some sort
and how it's not only working for us, but the challenges that we've
had to face, that might open up dialogue or other colleges to say,
"You know what, I face those same things too, and I appreciate that
approach. Or here's what I've done to work through that barrier," I
don't know.
00:10:59 Leslie
I do like the idea of ... I don't want to say
surveying, but just assessing the landscape, not just here, but at
all community colleges, all 19, at the regional level, I think
there's value in that. We've talked before about centralizing
information and LARC being the hub for employer engagement and
things like this, so we've had those conversations.
00:11:18 Leslie
I would be interested in knowing what the existing
landscape looks like so that we know what we're speaking to.
Particularly as it relates to PCC's model and how we want to kind
of build something that can be either replicated and influenced by
everybody else's input, I think that would be valuable.
00:11:36 Salvatrice
Well, where do we go from here? I mean, we have
something that is of interest to us and clearly, we've seen some
great results, but there's so much room for more growth.
00:11:47 Leslie
There's room for growth, but even here, even with our
model, speaking to iterations, I mean I'm going to keep us honest.
We've had iterations, but currently, we're not even appropriately
staffed to do employer engagement. We have one job developer that
works in non-credit. And we are going to be recruiting for another
job developer or a functionally equivalent position in the near
future, I'm saying that out loud.
00:12:13 Salvatrice
Put that out in the universe-
00:12:14 Leslie
Isn't that correct, Salvatrice?
00:12:16 Salvatrice
That is correct, yes it is.
00:12:18 Leslie
So, while we have a model we think works, let's also
be honest that even at home, it's not perfect.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
Of course not.
00:12:23 Leslie
Lots of people have their hands in this work, like I
said earlier. So, it has to be the case at other colleges. So, I
would be really interested in knowing what other colleges have to
say. And I think that as we think about our role as conveners in
the region through the LARC, I think that it's appropriate that we
have that conversation in that space as well, to get that
assessment of the landscape for other colleges.
00:12:48 Leslie
Like what are they doing? What CRMs are they using?
Are there recommendations? What are best practices? And then
developing a bigger model that is reflective of the input of all
the different colleges, then we can push it, then we can replicate
it, then we can train for it, then we can create trainings around
that or create something. We could do marketing around the value on
both sides of it if that needs to happen, I feel like those are
good next steps.
00:13:16 Salvatrice
Do they become almost like the coalition of the
willing, right?
00:13:19 Leslie
And they will because everybody's doing employer
engagement, whether they call it or not. They'll be like, "Yeah, I
need help with that, let's talk about it, or here's what we use."
For all we know, there could be this really great system out there
that we don't even know about.
00:13:32 Leslie
Maybe they're partnering with their foundations and
they're keeping their contacts, because sometimes those contacts
are similar. You may have alumni who are working at these
organizations and those are your best point of contact for all
needs related to the college.
00:13:45 Leslie
They're bringing in employers for job fairs, they're
providing mentorships, they're providing internships, they're
providing alumni support in different ways financially, otherwise.
So, they may be partnering with foundations to utilize their
systems or they may have a different system yet, there could be
something really great.
00:14:03 Leslie
We have college central network here at PCC that we
use and we have access to employers through there, and that can
serve as a CRM, but is that the best? Don't know, haven't seen them
all.
00:14:13 Salvatrice
And I wonder if during this coalition of the willing,
if we put together a group that's saying, "Hey, we really want to
solve this problem, here's where our mind's at." Wondering if we
could also leverage that report that just came out from the
Chancellor's Office, if you recall, we were interviewed for, if
memory serves me right, it's called the California Student
Employment Outcomes Landscape Analysis.
00:14:35 Salvatrice
Where the Chancellor's Office had a third party come
in and had great questions for us. And I can only imagine those
same questions were replicated across other colleges at our sister
colleges. Maybe leveraging some of those key findings.
00:14:49 Leslie
Yeah, I think it's a great idea.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
And figuring out how do we do it.
00:14:52 Leslie
Right, that was what happens. We do a lot of good
research or we have a lot of good conversations but then what? I
mean, there's so much good stuff going on, everybody's doing so
much good work. We're all so busy all the time, we have a heck of a
time scheduling meetings because we're always in meetings. But then
what? I think then what is the million dollar question: then what?
What do we do with all this stuff that we do?
00:15:14 Salvatrice
I don't really know but it sounds like to me - I mean,
I don't know right this minute, like we had some really good
...
00:15:18 Leslie
No I need an answer, Salvatrice, that's why I'm
asking.
00:15:21 Salvatrice
My answer to you is going to be those are wonderful
recommendations and I will take them to an account ... a standard
go-to.
00:15:28 Leslie
Thank you.
00:15:28 Salvatrice
But I think it just merits us doing just that, almost
putting out a call to action. Like we're really curious about
solving this problem and who within our consortium would want to
explore this with us and leverage existing key findings to figure
out yes, it's fragmented but it's fragmented because maybe that's
intentional.
00:15:50 Leslie
It needs to be fragmented.
00:15:51 Salvatrice
That's why it looks fragmented, but really, the output
and the outcomes are being done. They're just being done in a
different way.
00:15:59 Leslie
At minimum, you have 19 individuals, and anytime you
get 19 different people, you're going to have 19 different
approaches, and maybe even 19 different standards for success, or
maybe five different standards for success. I mean, do we even
agree to what a good number of employer engagement outreach effort
- do we have metrics like what's the benchmark?
00:16:17 Leslie
You know what I mean? It could vary by campus. Maybe
your idea of excellence isn't the person down the street's idea of
excellence, that matters. And I think that we're in a unique
position here at PCC because we have the LARC under EWD as
conveners for the 19 community colleges.
00:16:36 Leslie
So, we're in a unique position to raise the question,
to pose the question to the group and to actually do something with
the responses. I think it's cool that we're having the conversation
because we can actually do something.
00:16:50 Salvatrice
And I'm going to add just one thing because we can go
on forever, but I want to close by also planting the seed around
faculty's role in employer engagement, because they are
instrumental and ambassadors to the work.
00:17:03 Salvatrice
And the reason why I bring that up is not only because
we've experienced it - we've experienced such beautiful things that
has happened with our faculty engaging with our employers because
they're personal - again, they go back to personal
relationships.
00:17:14 Salvatrice
But the perception of private public partnerships, the
faculty's perspective, and perception around private public
partnerships near and dear to me. I mean, I'm studying it now
because of my dissertation and I'm doing the research and so that's
why it just comes up to me, it feels fresh. But they play an
instrumental role outside of the staff that's there to support the
work as well.
00:17:41 Salvatrice
So, I think maybe at a later time, maybe we just
unpack that a little bit too because that's a variable that's
instrumental to this work.
00:17:49 Leslie
Yeah, I know the importance of faculty involvement
with employers, just maintaining contact with industries. It can't
be underscored enough because it's for their own programming too,
it's for their own benefits. But there's also courses which require
field work.
00:18:00 Leslie
There's a lot of different reasons why faculty would
need to stay engaged with industry and employers. And they have
those relationships, they have existing relationships. A lot of
them, particularly in our CT programs, may have spent time in those
fields, worked in those industries, or have close relationships
there. So, they're doing it too, it's important, you're right.
00:18:20 Salvatrice
And they're doing a great job at it too. We've seen
some really great outcomes in that, and the relationships that
they've built on their own.
00:18:26 Leslie
But do they consider that employer engagement?
00:18:28 Salvatrice
See, that's a good question.
00:18:29 Leslie
If we put out a call to action for employer
engagement, would they even open the email? You know what I mean?
Because you don't realize you're doing it, that's my point. It's
fragmented because it has to be because so many different people
are doing it.
00:18:39 Leslie
We have to start by what is it, and why is it
important and why are we all doing it? I'm not saying people don't
know what they're doing, I'm saying that you just may not call it
that.
00:18:48 Salvatrice
Well, it sounds like we are getting closer to
unpacking this. I feel like we didn't even really unpack too much
and we did, and we just brought to light what we're experiencing.
But there's so much room for us to explore solutions and I really
look forward to either future dialogues and future-like popcorn
brain sessions around it.
00:19:09 Leslie
I mean, I feel like it's a good topic to bring up and
we've posed the question like what is it? What are we doing with
it? And there is a call to action. I think that we should explore
further how we're going to take this work to the next level within
the region, and what model's going to be put forth. Is it ours? Is
it a new and improved? Is it better? Is someone else doing it
better? I want to know.
00:19:28 Salvatrice
Yeah, me too. Well, on that note, let's close by
saying more to come and thank you. I really, really appreciate this
and we'll see what comes up from our listeners too.
00:19:39 Salvatrice
I bet that there are listeners listening in saying,
"Wait a minute, this really works for us and here's how I've seen
it done." So, I'd be interested in anyone listening, please shoot
us an email because we're certainly willing to learn.
00:19:52 Leslie
There are a lot of people that have been doing this
work for a really long time.
00:19:54 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:19:55 Leslie
So, we have a lot of experts that can weigh in and I'm
interested in hearing from them personally, so I think that's
great.
00:20:01 Salvatrice
Alright, well, thanks, Leslie.
00:20:03 Leslie
Alright cool.
00:20:03 Salvatrice
Until next time.
00:20:04 Leslie
Bye.
00:20:04 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast.
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00:20:24 Salvatrice
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the
Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and
wellness.