Jul 19, 2022
The Key To Aligning Higher Education With The Current Workforce, With Dr. Su Jin Jez Executive Director At California Competes Episode 74
00:00:00 Dr. Jez
Higher ed is not just needed for
a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a living wage
job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some
post-secondary education. In the U.S., your job ties to so much.
Your job is really important for quality of life and prosperity
across the board. And those jobs that provide those benefits
increasingly need some post-secondary training.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is
rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep
up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our
communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an
education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to
change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are
headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the
future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice
President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City
College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi,
producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the
conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like
how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable,
and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and
PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want
to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are
learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they
enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the
employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the
community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when
we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm
Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and
this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to
the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo.
Today, we'll be talking about higher education and workforce
alignment, and what changes we need to make to ensure we are
preparing the next generation of workforce.
00:02:06 Salvatrice
We will also talk about some of
the programs that are currently in place, and programs to look
forward to, to help career readiness. With that being said, we are
excited to welcome Dr. Su Jin Jez, Executive Director at California
Competes, where she works to develop nonpartisan and financially
pragmatic recommendations for improved higher education and
workforce policies, as well as practices across
California.
00:02:33 Salvatrice
Dr. Jez has presented across the
country and internationally on key issues in higher education and
system change, including economic and workforce development,
college readiness and success, student college choice, and
decision-making, as well as institutional
effectiveness.
00:02:52 Salvatrice
She is also an accomplished
researcher, widely published and led a large-scale study of the
California Community College Chancellor's Office, economic and
workforce development program, and co-authored multiple reports
analyzing the role of California Community College career technical
education in the college completion agenda. We are extremely
excited to welcome you, Dr. Jez, how are you
today?
00:03:21 Dr. Jez
Doing well, how are you? I'm
happy to be here too.
00:03:23 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. You know, we
all have really busy schedules, but I know that yours is
tremendously busy, especially during this time of year. If you
don't mind, let's just get right into it. If you wouldn't mind
telling me Dr. Jez, if you can share with us really kind of what
led you to this work in higher education and workforce development,
and why is it something that continues to interest
you?
00:03:45 Salvatrice
I get this question a lot - I'm
always interested in hearing like-minded practitioners answer this
question.
00:03:53 Dr. Jez
This work, it's really personal
to me. Growing up, my parents didn't have a chance to complete
college. My mom didn't a chance really to go to college, and they
emphasized how important going to college was and instilled in me
the value of higher education and the doors it could
open.
00:04:10 Dr. Jez
But then I also saw how
inequitable access to higher education was. And from that, it
really drove my interest in trying to make sure that this core
function, higher education, workforce development is something that
all folks could access and could climb up the economic ladder to
have to have better lives.
00:04:31 Dr. Jez
And that's what we really focus
on is how do we build access to higher ed? How do we build higher
ed systems that promote completion? And then how do we make sure
that higher Ed's aligned to labor market, workforce, outcomes and
can strengthen our state's economy and the individuals in our
state.
00:04:52 Salvatrice
We share similar stories. You
know, my parents as well were immigrants in this country and they
really pushed the value of education and the importance of
education, and the importance that it does propel you forward in
life. And I'm honored to be working in higher ed. I know you are
too, I can tell in your voice.
00:05:11 Salvatrice
And you mentioned three very
important themes in your response, but before we get into the how
and what that looks like, I'm interested in really knowing why?
Personally from your perspective, why is it important that higher
ed aligns with workforce? Everyone has a different answer when I
ask this question, because workforce is so fluid, but I'm really
interested in hearing your thoughts.
00:05:36 Dr. Jez
Yeah, I think higher education
is critical to our state's economy, to the workforce. And for
individuals thinking about issues of equity, improving higher ed
workforce alignment allows for better transitions from higher ed
into good jobs and allows for better economic
mobility.
00:05:55 Dr. Jez
And work that California
Competes has done has identified a large gap in how many graduates
our higher ed system in California is producing, and the number of
graduates that our workforce needs. And to close that gap, we've
identified closing equity gaps as being key to that, ensuring that
we get more students of color, more first-generation students, more
immigrants, more adult learners into and through higher
ed.
00:06:21 Dr. Jez
But that also, means that these
individuals like myself don't have access to professional networks.
My parents didn't complete college, weren't in professional
careers, none of our family or friends. So, when you complete
college, you now have to find a job and that can be really hard if
you don't have that sort of career capital, the social capital
that's going to help you figure out what our professional career
is. How do you apply for it? How do you interview? And then sort of
like how do you enter that labor market?
00:06:48 Dr. Jez
So, thinking about higher ed's
role around sort of an equity agenda, I think that's really
critical. But also, thinking about sort of our statewide economic
and social demands and needs. California has an incredibly strong
economy and California's I think a place that so many folks want to
move to because of the strength of our communities and the social
fabric of our state.
00:07:12 Dr. Jez
But that also, really depends on
the ability of higher education institutions in serving our state.
And you could think about that in a number of ways. For example,
thinking about the shortage of teachers, those teachers are trained
by higher ed. So, we need higher ed to understand that our society,
our state needs more teachers and produce more teachers, and be
responsive to meeting those workforce needs.
00:07:35 Dr. Jez
We are in the summer of 2022,
and I think every Californian is thinking about wildfires in our
state. Our state's ability to prevent, to sort of not have
wildfires that devastate our state, higher ed has a really big role
in that too, from training firefighters, but also, to training
arborists who can cut down trees that are growing too close to
power lines, to growing technology that reduces dependence on more
dangerous energy systems, et cetera. So, the role of higher ed in
just sort of maintaining our state's sort of social fabric is also
really critical.
00:08:12 Salvatrice
And would you agree that a huge
partner in doing this work are our employers. And we've been
working diligently, we as a system, as a community college system
have been working diligently around that employer partnership in
order to fulfill a solution or fulfill the problem, I should say,
and find a solution for workforce and higher ed
alignment.
00:08:37 Salvatrice
I mean, I would say at bare
minimum, the last decade has been a stronger emphasis around
employer engagement and what that looks like and how they engage
with our college, the value that they bring. And in thinking about
that and knowing what our system is and how we function, what would
you say are some of the barriers to that employer
engagement?
00:09:01 Salvatrice
I mean, I can think about like
top five, but I want to be mindful that with our employers that are
listening or with our faculty, with our students that are
listening, that we, as a system, are constantly trying to address
the barriers to employer engagement so that we could be of service
or better serve our community. What might you say those barriers
are in your perspective?
00:09:22 Dr. Jez
I mean, this is such a critical
issue. We're actually releasing a brief that explores this very
issue around higher ed and employer engagement and the barriers to
engagement. And through our research, we found that the main issues
stem from three main misalignments in culture, in structures, and
in values.
00:09:40 Dr. Jez
Specifically, in culture, we
found differences between employers and higher ed often like the
ways of behaving. And that would often sort of foster discord in
structures and values. And so, specifically, in structure, is
higher ed institutions are not structured really to engage with
employers. So, thinking about like, what is the role? Like who
should be the person that engages with employers or people? What
are those jobs? What do the job responsibilities look like? How do
they connect across campus?
00:10:09 Dr. Jez
And then same with employers.
And I think the dramatic diversity of types of higher ed
institutions and types of employers makes this work even more
challenging because there isn't a single structure that works well.
Like the community colleges are going to be structured different
than the California state university system, than the University of
California, than private and small mom and pop, perhaps for
profits.
00:10:31 Dr. Jez
And then same with employers;
the way that Apple engages with higher ed is going to be very
different than the way a local like bookkeeper engages with higher
ed, for example. And then that also transitions and connects to
their values.
00:10:45 Dr. Jez
So, both sides, we found in our
research that both sides were at once unclear about the value of
connecting with the other party. And then also, didn't understand
the value that the other party had in connecting with themselves,
with them. So, higher ed, why should higher ed engage with
employers, there was no clear value proposition when we spoke with
higher ed interviewees, and likewise for the
employers.
00:11:10 Dr. Jez
And then when we asked around
for higher ed folks, well, why do you think an employer would want
to engage with higher ed? It wasn't clear, and then vice versa. So,
we saw in this like the culture, structure, and value as being the
key barriers, but we also heard a lot of things that people
identified as bright spots in trying to do the work. It seemed like
there were a number of things that sort of came out of those three
main barriers.
00:11:36 Salvatrice
Curiosity, where was the
research conducted?
00:11:38 Dr. Jez
Yeah, so the research was
conducted here in California. We aimed to target folks working in
higher ed, faculty leaders, administrator staff, students and
alumni, and also employers. And we aimed to target high-growth,
high-wage industries, but we were also open to a snowball
method.
00:11:57 Dr. Jez
So, at the end of interviews, we
asked, is there anyone else that you believe we should be speaking
to on this issue? If they mentioned someone we would reach out, but
it was across California.
00:12:08 Salvatrice
You know, I want to shift gears
a little bit. I wanted to talk a little bit about the recent career
readiness pilot that was launched. And I believe it's called the
Cross-sector Career Readiness pilot. And it was through an
investment with ECMC foundation. Can you tell us a little bit more
about that and how that works within our Los Angeles region or how
that affects our Los Angeles region?
00:12:33 Dr. Jez
It's an exciting and innovative
pilot that launched out of work that we did with Compton College.
And it includes four community colleges in central LA, Compton
College, El Camino College, LA Southwest, and South LA, and it
also, includes LA County supervisor Holly Mitchell's
office.
00:12:50 Dr. Jez
And so, that's why we're calling
it this cross-sector. We're trying to sort of center the central LA
resident in the work, and think about how do we get this
Californian who has a lot more potential that has been reached? How
do we get this person the education they need and the resources
they need to be successful and be able to deliver not just for
themselves and their family, but also, for our state's needs and
the region's needs.
00:13:14 Dr. Jez
So, in this partnership, we are
pulling the colleges together and they're coming together to work
collaboratively to really address those needs and thinking about
how do we structure career readiness at the core of these
institutions?
00:13:28 Dr. Jez
So, oftentimes, career readiness
has been the function of a siloed career center on campus that
people see as doing like mock interviews and reviewing resumes. But
what we really see as career readiness is a cross-campus, a
horizontal function that starts with the higher ed leader, the CEO
chancellor president, but it should be connected to every faculty
member across departments, communications, external affairs -
everything on campus should really have a deep connection to career
readiness.
00:13:58 Dr. Jez
And people often ask me, well,
what about a student who isn't in a vocational or career education
program? You know, nearly every student today says they're going to
college because they want a good job at the end of it. Even the
student who is studying history and plans to transfer to a liberal
arts college, career readiness still matters for them and we should
still be thinking about how do we leverage what's happening at the
community college to support their transition.
00:14:24 Dr. Jez
We shouldn't wait until the end
and it shouldn't just be for students in like occupationally
focused programs. So, that's really a core piece of it. And then
getting the colleges kind of tends to compete. So, instead of
having colleges compete with each other, like how do we have
colleges work together to better serve residents? And then the
county, a lot of what happens that matters to residents and can
support residents is administered by counties and not higher
ed.
00:14:48 Dr. Jez
So, how can we connect students
to resources like CalWORKs and CalFresh? How can we leverage the
workforce development system? Like we owe a funding to support
students. How do we sort of optimize it to really support students
better? So, that's what we're looking to figure out. And that's
what we're going to focus on to support these residents that were
really hard hit by the pandemic and were struggling before the
pandemic,
00:15:13 Salvatrice
The pilot hasn't necessarily
completed. The pilot is still in motion.
00:15:17 Dr. Jez
Yeah, we just launched. So,
right now, we are in sort of like this discovery research phase
where California Competes researchers is working with the four
colleges in LA County to really understand what's going on in their
organizations. So, we're doing interviews at each campus to really
understand what's going on, where the challenge is, where the
opportunity is, who are they partnering with?
00:15:37 Dr. Jez
We analyze their organizational
structure, so where does career readiness work currently sit in the
institution. We're looking at any sort of like grant applications
or RFPs. So, in the community colleges, big sources of funding
around this would be outside of their sort of regular funding would
be like strong workforce program, adult ed,
Perkins.
00:15:59 Dr. Jez
We're also going to be
reviewing, they have any like really prominent consultants on
campus doing work around this; what are their scopes. Basically
trying to really discover what's going on and then to identify what
needs to be strengthened to allow this work to happen better. So,
we plan to conclude that work towards the end of this year, and
then launch the colleges in improvement work - and improvement work
with each other.
00:16:24 Salvatrice
Excellent. We at Pasadena City
College have taken an innovative approach to career readiness as
well. I would be delighted to share that with you around the
Freeman Center and even organizationally. I mean, my ears perked
when you said really examine organizational structure in order to
fulfill career readiness so that our students are properly prepared
from the beginning of their journey, regardless of what discipline
and field of study.
00:16:52 Salvatrice
And so, I'd be delighted to chat
with you more about our model and what we've learned from it too.
And so, if you're interested-
00:17:01 Dr. Jez
I love it.
00:17:02 Salvatrice
Dr. Jez, I'd be delighted to
share that with you. Listen, I know that California Competes, I've
been following the organization for quite some time now, have a lot
of respect for your organization. And I also know that there's lots
of projects that California Competes works on.
00:17:19 Salvatrice
Anything we should be looking
forward to? I know the pilot's a big one. It's almost unfair for me
to say, like are there any other projects that are coming down the
pipeline that we can look forward to, but are
there?
00:17:28 Dr. Jez
Yeah, we have a number of really
exciting work that is launching now or will soon be launching. I
will talk about a couple of them that connect to this work. So,
right now, one big project is really focusing from a system change
and a policy level, how do we optimize student access to all those
resources I just mentioned with regards to the LA to the
career-ready project.
00:17:51 Dr. Jez
So, looking at if you're a
college student or a prospective college student, what programs and
services, resources are available to college students with the goal
to optimize access? You know, I feel like my ultimate vision would
be that students could do one application and have automatic
eligibility to the breadth of resources that already exist in our
state to support their ability to complete
college.
00:18:20 Dr. Jez
So, we'll be analyzing, for
example, for like CalWORKs and CalFresh, CalEITC, you name it -
low-cost broadband access, we'll be analyzing, what are the
eligibility requirements? How does one apply? And with the goal to
figure out how can we make it so that the process is simpler for
students. Because right now, for example, only 22% of eligible
college students in California receive CalFresh
benefits.
00:18:46 Dr. Jez
So, I feel like our state has
done a great job at identifying needs in our state and putting in
place programs, but it's really hard for students to get access to
it. So, thinking about how do we just like take the burden off the
student to figure it out. So, that's one big project that I'm
really excited about.
00:19:04 Dr. Jez
Another big project is a
partnership with a group called California Attain, which is made up
of California Competes, Sacramento state, Shasta College, and a
nonprofit called Project Attain, which is an independent
community-based nonprofit focused on adult learners. So, we are
working together to improve completion and access for Californias
with some college, but no degree.
00:19:31 Dr. Jez
So, some research work with this
partnership is launching this summer to really understand at a
deeper level, why are so many Californians leaving college ahead of
completion? What would it take to get them to re-enroll and then
what would it take to restructure institutions to promote
completion?
00:19:50 Dr. Jez
And the exciting part is we will
do this research in partnership with students from this population
as co-researchers, and then the higher ed institutions have
committed to piloting the recommendations and what we've learned
are the barriers and the things that could promote access and
completion. So, really excited about that work. We're hoping that
what we learn could be a model across the state around the student
college degree population.
00:20:15 Dr. Jez
The third exciting piece I
wanted to share is related to online education. This is a priority
of California Competes because we have seen and learned that for
adult learners in California and for adults that we need to go to
higher ed, there is a strong preference for exclusively online
programs.
00:20:35 Dr. Jez
And so, right now, online
programs in California tend to deliver pretty inequitable outcomes.
So, we believe California needs to meet this moment head on, think
about how do we deliver high-quality online programs that could
grow access to higher education and ideally, close equity
gaps.
00:20:54 Dr. Jez
And so, we are launching an
initiative to develop a statewide strategy for a more equitable
quality online education system. And so, we're planning to do this
through a series of convenings, and there's a lot of good work
going on in the state already. So, it's sort of like how do we
spark that good work into a statewide strategy?
00:21:11 Dr. Jez
So, I do want to put out a call.
So, if you are leading, if anyone listening to this podcast is
leading an equity-driven initiative around online education, I
would love to hear about it. Please reach out, but that's what we
want to do is make it more intentional and
statewide
00:21:26 Salvatrice
So, much great stuff. Thank you
for putting that out there to our listeners. If there is anyone who
has a model in place and wants to share, please do share
it.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
With that said, thank you for
including our community colleges as thought leaders to your work;
our administration, our faculty. I know that they work really,
really hard at delivering and optimizing resources and services to
our students. We greatly thank you for looking at us as thought
leaders in this space.
00:21:53 Salvatrice
What could be one thing, if you
said Salvatrice,, there's one thing that community colleges can do
and implement to align workforce - what would that
be?
00:22:07 Dr. Jez
Given the diversity and sort of
how complex higher education is, and how complex the workforce
landscape is, the one thing I think is figuring out ways to get
higher ed and workforce leaders together systematically and
structurally; get them to engage with each other, and I feel like
the rest falls into place.
00:22:30 Dr. Jez
They can design for locally
contextually relevant solutions for the population that they're
serving, for the economy that they're looking to strengthen or
grow. So, it's less of a specific solution, but more setting up the
environment for collaboration and aligning their interests in
serving the residents and students in their
region.
00:22:51 Salvatrice
Thank you. I want to take a
moment to acknowledge that this is a future of work podcast.
Everything you shared today leads to us preparing the best
workforce in the future. And if there was, again, that one thing,
that one thing you'd like our listeners to understand about how
this topic impacts their future from our conversation today, what
would that be?
00:23:16 Dr. Jez
That higher ed is not just
needed for a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a
living wage job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some
post-secondary education. I've talked a lot about jobs, but like in
the U.S., your job ties to so much.
00:23:34 Dr. Jez
I mean, obviously, sociologists
talk about social class, but in the midst of this global pandemic,
the relationship between your work and access to healthcare,
between your work and access to like retirement benefits; your job
is really important for quality of life and prosperity across the
board. And those jobs that provide those benefits increasingly need
some post-secondary training.
00:24:02 Dr. Jez
Even jobs that have the same
title 40 years ago, today, require higher education. So, I think
the key is going to college isn't like an elite function today. It
is really necessary for probably nearly all workers will need some
post-secondary training.
00:24:19 Salvatrice
Thank you for saying that. And
that's truly the idea around the podcast, is that we address the
opportunities that lie in front of us as well as barriers that we
as systems or we as legislators or as groups of individuals need to
address as well. And you're right, everyone at this point needs
post-secondary education if we truly want the access and the
connection to what you've just shared.
00:24:46 Salvatrice
This has been so lovely, Dr.
Jez. Thank you so much for the conversation. I foresee more
dialogue and I will be sure to reach out to you personally, to talk
about some of the things and kind of unpack some of the things that
you just shared. And I hope that our listeners do too. What is the
best way for our listeners to connect with you that we can enter
into the show notes?
00:25:10 Dr. Jez
So, the best way to reach me is
via our website, californiacompetes.org. You'll also find the
research and work I mentioned there. You can sign up for our
newsletter also there, but there's the social media links, follow
us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and then you'll find under our
staff page my contact information and social media handles as
well.
00:25:30 Dr. Jez
You know, one of my favorite
parts of this role is listening and hearing about all the good work
happening in the state and thinking about how do we make it so that
this good work could happen across the state. So, on the sort of
like good work side, and then I also love hearing the challenges
people are facing, because that really drives the research we
do.
00:25:48 Dr. Jez
Our research is built off of the
problems that we're hearing from like our friends on the ground.
And then I think about, is there research that we could do to help
solve this problem for this institution, but then also, how do we
change our structures so that it doesn't require Salvatrice to come
up with a clever workaround for this, but that someone just doing
their job doesn't know that this was ever an issue, it's been
solved. Would love if people reached out, I love to hear both
problems and cool things happening.
00:26:19 Salvatrice
Well, thank you so much. Look
forward to reconnecting and enjoy your vacation. I understand
you're on vacation right now, is that true?
00:26:27 Dr. Jez
I am, South Puget Sound in
Washington state.
00:26:29 Salvatrice
Enjoy! Thank you for making the
time and we will connect soon.
00:26:33 Dr. Jez
Thank you.
00:26:36 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the
Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your
favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes
every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website
link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat
about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with
you.
00:26:55 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of
Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and
wellness.