Jun 21, 2022
00:00:00 Rob
Really, as you think about personal brand, for
me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a
person understands that you're out there to contribute and
participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is
a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also
has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being
able to connect with people that are working at other
companies.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and
educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing
students before they enter the workforce to make our communities
and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and
adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed
before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the
future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of
Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and
host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of
this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the
future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner
with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of
our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the
workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the
charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning
and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This
is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the
policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a
whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together
and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina
Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future
of Work.
00:01:51 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of
Work Podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will be
talking about the podcast industry and how new media is becoming a
prominent tool for all of us, and where we see it heading in the
future. We will also discuss how this new media and traditional
education should overlap.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
With that being said, we want to welcome none
other than Rob Greenlee, Vice President of Partnership at Libsyn:
the first podcast hosting platform. Mr. Greenlee has a rich
background in new media, starting with the early days of the
internet and was, of course, one of the ones, the first ones to
jump into podcasting space back in 2005.
00:02:31 Salvatrice
At Libsyn, Rob does everything from developing
podcast content, distribution, paid subscriptions, advertising
opportunities, and its podcast partners. He has been at his role
since 2019, and we are absolutely thrilled to have him with us
today. Good morning, Rob.
00:02:49 Rob
Good morning. It's great to be here, Salvatrice.
I appreciate the opportunity to join you. And as I love to do
podcasts, this is like right in my wheelhouse. So, what I like to
every day, so this is fun for me.
00:03:01 Salvatrice
Well, thank you. I'm glad it's going to be fun.
It's fun for me too. So, I'll tell you what, why don't we just jump
right in if you don't mind. I've got a list of questions for you
and I think that this is going to be super exciting to better
understand again, new media and the braiding of education and the
future of work.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
So, with that said, Rob, if you could share with
me what led you really to this path and this work, and why it's
something that really kind of continues to be of interest to you
and drives you in this space?
00:03:32 Rob
Yeah, I think from the highest level, it's
really, for me, I'm a marketing guy. I got a marketing degree in
college and I spent years working in the grocery industry of all
things pre-internet. And so, got kind of basically attracted to the
internet as a marketing vehicle, and as a marketing tool to create
deeper connections with customers, and then utilizing content to
help reach customers in a different way and to build trust
relationships and to build direct relationships.
00:04:03 Rob
I had a really strong background in advertising,
promotion, PR, and all that kind of stuff. So, you can kind of see
how that was like, well, this is the way that I can reach a global
market with what I'm doing. And I actually started to do that. It
basically turned into a career. I walked into a radio station,
created a radio show back in 1999, and then started to use that
content online, and build an audience and build distribution and
all that kind of stuff.
00:04:28 Rob
And it really took me down a path of being a
content creator online. I had never been really a content creator
prior to that. So, it was really kind of a new frontier for me. And
it really helped me, I think in a lot of ways, expand my skillset,
build some confidence, not like what I spent years doing in playing
competitive sports. You just get in and you start refining your
skills and you get better and better and better, and you help
others along the way. And that was kind of what got me into
this.
00:04:55 Salvatrice
Great. I imagine that you've seen media just
evolving so rapidly, I think, in the last, I would say 7 to 10
years. I would even say less than that. And I wonder if there's
emerging platforms that you're noticing that we need to pay
attention to as new media continues to evolve. What are you seeing
right now in this role, what are you seeing as emerging
platforms?
00:05:18 Rob
Well, I think the emergence or in some cases, I
think if you have a historical perspective on online media, it's a
little bit of a return to the values of the earlier days, at least
in the podcast medium or video, was a very important part of
podcasting. I mean, a lot of newer people to podcasting don't
realize that, but in the early days of the podcast medium, about
30% of the market was video podcasts. And that was delivered to
listeners via a download, just like the audio is today.
00:05:47 Rob
But when we saw YouTube start back in 2007, it
basically siphoned all that content away from the downloadable
version of video into more of a streaming experience and free
hosting and just massive potential of audience building on the
YouTube platform. And so, I think what we're seeing right now is
kind of a return to that to some degree.
00:06:10 Rob
And I can't say that I can speak to specifically
why that's happening here over the last couple of years, but I do
think that there is kind of this ubiquity of internet access now
and fast speeds that is enabling video to kind of go to another
level.
00:06:26 Rob
So, I think about kind of the cutting edge
trends. I think and also, in combination with many people are kind
of consuming less mainstream media. So, when I see corporate media,
I think people are starting to have trust issues with corporate
media. So, now, they're kind of gravitating over to independent
voices and I think to some degree, that's happening around
podcasting too.
00:06:49 Rob
I think the trust factor is one of the biggest
drivers I think of the digital media landscape right now of
anything. And just the diversity of voices, the diversity of
thought - I know that there's a lot of tension around
misinformation and things like that. But if you can cut through
that kind of cloud of misunderstanding, I guess, and really get to
common sense, you can start building trust.
00:07:15 Rob
And I do think that the digital medium right now
is really starting to plow in that direction. And video is becoming
more and more important. That's not to say that audio isn't very
important. I think both of them can ride together and help each
other. And I do think that there's people out there that are
primarily video consumers and there's people out there that are
primarily audio consumers, and there's some that like to do
both.
00:07:36 Rob
So, I think it makes sense that we're pushing a
little bit harder on the video side. And I think we're all still
trying to figure this out. And I think the video transcends into
other platforms other than podcasting too, like TikTok and reels
and Facebook and LinkedIn, and these other types of platforms are
also becoming more and more important in people's lives.
00:07:57 Salvatrice
Yeah. You've mentioned corporate medium and the
trust factor. Folks are just not trusting corporate media right
now. And what I'm understanding is that individual voices are
dominating the space and it has been, I think - I think it's a
combination of our environment, current events, social events. I
think that it's obviously amplified right now as it should. I'm a
firm believer of it.
00:08:22 Salvatrice
But what trends do you think that you're seeing
or what behaviors perhaps are you seeing with corporate media right
now in building the trust back? And I ask this question because as
educators, specifically within community colleges, it's important
for us to have a relationship with our employers so that it informs
curricula.
00:08:41 Salvatrice
But when you have a space, for example, the space
that we're talking about right now with new media, where employer
AKA the corporates are not valued in this space, it's really
individual voices. Like I wonder how do we as educators build for
potential occupations in this space. So, that's why I was asking
that question about what corporate is doing. Are they reexamining
their approaches because that's going to inform us on how we build
up for these potential occupations.
00:09:12 Rob
I think that it's really a matter of finding
voices in those organizations that can build trust. That may be
difficult for some organizations to accomplish. And other ones,
it'll be smooth sailing. But I do think that people generally trust
people. I don't know that ... at least over the last few years have
been growing in their trust of brands.
00:09:33 Rob
So, I think as you think about how people
communicate and be successful online in a career or as part of a
company, I think those personal relationships that are developed
with people representing those companies has become increasingly
important over time, which also drives back to a different kind of
skillset that needs to be valued in those companies or those
corporations or those media companies that are trying to build
trusted personal brands.
00:10:05 Rob
And one terrific way of doing that is video. And
another one is doing a podcast that's trying to help others, trying
to communicate value, building some level of entertainment, but yet
driving value to listeners. So, you can see how the trends in the
marketplace are shaping the content creation side of the online
media world. And I think it does propel us in a direction.
00:10:30 Rob
I think younger people are seeing this. I don't
think it's lost on them, the impact of TikTok and Facebook and
Twitter and podcasting and especially, YouTube. I think it's having
a transformational impact on our culture and our society and our
education system about how we value skills.
00:10:50 Rob
I think one of the most important skills, and
this is something I developed when I was younger, because I didn't
really have presentation skills because I played competitive
basketball and I didn't talk. So, I've had to grow up in this
medium and learn how to present and communicate, and going from not
really speaking very much because I had a little bit of a speech
impediment when I was younger, to getting up on stage and keynoting
at events around the world, and doing podcasting is something that
I've had to learn how to do, and had to struggle at times to learn
how to do.
00:11:25 Rob
And I think that's going to be more and more the
journey that we see younger people go through. Some people have
natural abilities in this area and other people don't and they have
to learn how to do it. They have to just get out there and put
themselves out there and start building their community and
building trust with other people. And I think it's going to be key
to success in pretty much every career.
00:11:46 Rob
To some degree, I'm not saying every career needs
to have a podcast or every career has to have a large video brand
out there that's associated with them. But I do think that the
skills that are needed are the same. Just like what we're doing
here, trying to do this conversation, I think a lot of people do
video calls, I think a lot of people get in front of their
supervisors or their boss and need to present themselves on a
microphone or in a call or something like that. And these are all
skills that are relatively new.
00:12:16 Rob
I think the pandemic really exposed the need. I
mean, I laughed when I saw a lot of the mainstream media
personalities that are so professional in the studio being forced
to become podcasters. They failed miserably for the first three or
four months until they got their act together. So, I think that was
a terrific example of the transformation that we've experienced
here over the last couple years, because we were all locked
home.
00:12:43 Salvatrice
Right. The skillset of presentation is, to your
point, transferable across all occupations, across all sectors. But
I wanted to maybe kind of unpack a little more about the skillsets
because I heard two things. I heard building the skillsets for our
new talent, but then I also heard that there's the skillsets within
existing organizations like corporates and others that they have to
build upon.
00:13:09 Salvatrice
Is there any other skillsets that you're saying
Salvatrice, like yes, communication's important. Yes,
presentation's important. But are there any other perhaps technical
skillsets or soft skills that we need to be paying more attention
to?
00:13:21 Rob
Yeah, I do think that there's technical skills
that are important on this and one of them is creating an
environment that is clean sounding, looks good. Like I've set up in
my office here, especially after the pandemic started because I
started doing so much online video. You know, I got studio lights
in here, I got a higher quality camera. You know, I have audio
gear, you can see I have a professional microphone.
00:13:45 Rob
But I am a podcaster and I've done live radio for
many years as well. So, I'm a little bit ahead of the curve. I
didn't buy this mic like last year, I bought it 2009. So, if that
tells you anything, how long I've had this, but it's just a matter
of learning about how to create content online and creating quality
audio and video.
00:14:05 Rob
Because as you look to the future, I think many
people are going to be judged on that, and how they show up in
their videos, whether it's dressed up for an interview or doing a
call with some sort of media company that wants to just do a
recording with you to talk about your company or your job or what
you're doing.
00:14:25 Rob
I like what we're doing right here. This is a
common practice for me that I've been doing actually for, I don't
know, probably since 2010. I've been doing things like this. So,
it's just a matter of getting yourself positioned and knowledgeable
and trying to get as good a quality of production of what you're
putting out because it will reflect on you, your professional
skills.
00:14:47 Salvatrice
As I heard you say that, I was thinking through
rapidly all the services within our career center and we don't do
any of this. I'm sitting here going, why are we not preparing our
students in front of the camera? Hello? Like we just went through a
pandemic, everything's been flipped upside down, why haven't I
spearheaded that momentum around preparing our students to be in
front of the camera.
00:15:13 Salvatrice
And I just had an aha moment. Like I just
self-corrected, Rob. So, like thank you. I just like, wait a
minute, like you're not even doing it Salvatrice. Gosh, like it
blew my mind right now because I thought we're not doing that. Of
course, we do the resume, we do preparations, communications, the
dress, the etc, all that good stuff and interviewing questions and
doing that kind of prep work.
00:15:37 Salvatrice
But we're not sharing how to present oneself in
front of a camera and all ... even before the pandemic, I would
say. Like we're seeing video resumes, we're seeing video interviews
more so than ever. But even prior to that, like we were seeing that
shift. And so, thank you for saying that because now, it's like,
gosh, Salvatrice, like get it together. Like why isn't your team
doing that and helping better students. So, thank you, I appreciate
that.
00:16:02 Salvatrice
And I think that it also should be embedded
throughout all programming. When we think about our traditional
career technical education programs or just career tech in general,
media falls under career tech. But just like the skillsets, both
soft and technical within entrepreneurship, I strongly believe that
the education of entrepreneurship should be braided across all
programming education, career tech.
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I believe media should too, at this point.
There's not one program that we have that cannot be translated into
having media skills and media knowledge, just as simple as
presentation. And so, I'm hearing you and I'm thinking, how could
we braid that? How do we as educators evolve our curriculum to
include more media? Media knowledge, media of experiences, media of
... fill in the blank. Do you feel like there's a way that we could
do better? How do we as educators do better in this space?
00:17:00 Rob
I think it's a complicated question to answer for
the simple reasons - I mean, if I think about my own path on this,
is that oftentimes, this is a very customized journey that an
individual goes through on how they want to position themselves. I
think there is some fundamentals that can be probably shared around
the importance of certain aspects of it, but there's so many
choices or options in different ways, whether it's equipment or how
you set up your background or how you set up your lights.
00:17:32 Rob
I think you can give students a perspective of
core principles, of good audio and video quality. What is the
fundamental aspects of it? You know, proper lighting, good quality
camera, good quality microphone. I'm not necessarily advocating
that you have to have a $500 dynamic microphone. You know, every
student or every professional needs to have a $ 500 microphone in
front of them, but there are audio tech and video tech that's out
there right now that is fairly inexpensive, and that will give you
that level of quality without having to really kind of go all in
like I've done.
00:18:11 Rob
And I'm constantly looking at companies out there
that are making new hardware that will make this easier for people
to do. And I think software will solve a lot of these problems and
very simple devices will also have capabilities. I think AI
technology and sound kind of software is growing and developing
very quickly right now.
00:18:35 Rob
And we may see a point where it's very easy to do
this in high quality because the softwares developed, the
microphones and stuff are very convenient. You just kind of clip it
to your collar and it communicates everything. And you just have a
little camera that's mounted on your computer that's high enough
quality. And maybe you get a light or two to just make sure that
you're able to be seen clearly.
00:18:58 Rob
And that's kind of really all you need for most
people. It's just, if they want to be a podcaster or if they want
to be a professional presenter on a video series or something like
that that they want to produce, they may need to think about more
advanced tools that can get them to a higher level of quality, but
most people just need to have the basics.
00:19:16 Rob
And I think audio quality is really, I think,
important and video quality is important. So, those are the core
basics that I think most people that are working in a career today
that have some sort of online connectivity that they're doing
remote work, need to be taking into consideration. And a lot of
laptops have very good options as well. And there's USB microphones
that you can get now that are very inexpensive that you can just
set up right in front of you and do good quality stuff.
00:19:46 Salvatrice
Yeah, thank you. If I can just shift gears just a
little bit, I want to talk about ... because you're right in front
of me and I feel like I have a very limited time to extract all the
domain expertise from your brain. But just shifting gears about the
future of work, keeping true to the theme of this podcast, which is
future of work: I, a student; I, a faculty member; I, an employer -
what are we seeing as newer emerging occupations in this space? Are
we seeing anything new and different as far as occupations or are
we seeing just the same thing, but just magnified just a little bit
different?
00:20:22 Rob
Yeah, I think we are seeing more of a
recognition. Like I was saying earlier, the companies are starting
to recognize and value audio production, video production more and
more. And I've seen just an explosion over the last, probably the
last three to four years of professionals in LinkedIn with
podcasting in their job titles or in their descriptions of the
things that they do.
00:20:45 Rob
It can span the whole spectrum. It's like a hobby
project or it's a side thing that they're doing from their regular
job. Or it's primarily to their business. I know I spent ... I'm a
very early user of LinkedIn. I had a hard time finding people that
had any kind of job orientation towards podcasting to connect with
because I was full all in on it. I guess I was early to the party
as they say.
00:21:09 Rob
But now, it's like I have a hard time not ... I
mean, it's like everybody has that in their job title right now.
So, I think that that's becoming more and more important all the
time. And I'm not saying that everybody starts a podcast and they
do it for the rest of their career or something like that. But I do
think a lot of people are interested in it and a lot of people are
listening and a lot of people are treating it as a fun thing to do
or a professional development thing.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
I wonder too, if you recognize any technology
gaps, are there any technical gaps that entrepreneurs should be
really kind of solving any specific problems? Are there any
problems in this space that you're just like, gosh, if we only had
this, it would solve this for the entrepreneurs that are
listening?
00:21:50 Rob
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I think
the devices need to be simpler and smarter and to make it easier to
produce high-quality stuff. And I think that's happening as the
market grows for this type of stuff. I think that that's something
that I know I keep a close eye on that just because I want to make
it as easy for someone to do this as possible.
00:22:09 Rob
I came from a timeframe when I had to spend
$20,000 to build a studio, to do my radio show at home. And so,
now, it's like I can accomplish the same thing for like maybe three
or $400. So, it's come that far and that's where I think it's going
to continue to get less expensive to do this stuff at a
high-quality level.
00:22:29 Salvatrice
I had a takeaway in this conversation that just
keeps coming up; it's trust and personal branding. Those two things
kind of tie together. And I feel like it's inevitable regardless of
the career choice you make, I think that this medium and this space
is crucial really kind of like to the trajectory of your career, to
some degree, to some degree in certain areas.
00:22:50 Salvatrice
Because it involves character, it involves
skillsets, it involves so many elements of one's personal brand
that can only be demonstrated in this capacity and to keep us
competitive in this market space. And whether you're seasoned
professionals or new professionals coming into any one space,
personal brand is really important. It's kind of what sets you
apart from the competition.
00:23:15 Salvatrice
That's a huge takeaway for me in this dialogue
along with many other things, but we forget about that. We forget
that we too have a brand.
00:23:24 Rob
Right. You're building a reputation with others
is what you're doing. Really, as you think about personal brand,
for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a
person understands that you're out there to contribute and
participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is
a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also
has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being
able to connect with people that are working at other
companies.
00:23:54 Rob
I would definitely think about thinking less
competitively about your relationships from the standpoint of just
because someone works for a competitive company, it doesn't mean
you can't have a friendship with them. So, because you never know,
as you build your personal brand and build your network, you can
become an influencer and this is applicable to many kind of job
roles out there or in the work world generally.
00:24:18 Rob
I mean, a lot of people are going to work for
themselves. And I think when you go to work for yourself and you
want to start your own company, I think personal brand is even more
important because your path to success is fundamentally built on
trust. But employers, trust is everything out there as well. I
think more and more employers are digging deeper into candidates'
backgrounds and what they're doing. So, I think putting yourself
out there in the most professional way you can, I think is one way
to build on that trust.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because I did
have a prompt question here, Rob, about a takeaway and what would
be one thing you'd want our listener to walk away with and
understand in this dialogue. And I plugged it in earlier because it
was a takeaway for me, and you further unpacked that for us. And I
appreciate that very much; trust and relationships and personal
branding and all relative, regardless of the career choices that we
make - we can go even further and say personal choices.
00:25:15 Salvatrice
Is there any other one thing - I feel compelled
to ask you: is there just one other thing that you want our
listener to understand about the impact of this dialogue and the
impact of the space or just anything in general?
00:25:26 Rob
I think this conversation really gets back to the
fundamentals of human interaction. There's new societal norms out
there that you always have to keep in mind that are happening that
are what I would call kind of sensitive areas around racial and
gender relationships in the broader world, even on a global scale.
And the other thing to keep in mind too, is that anything you do
online is global.
00:25:49 Rob
I think for many, and I knew this as a younger
person, myself is a lot of what I did was more local. But once you
start getting into this area, what we're talking about here, you
have a global perspective. I just came from Europe and London and
Sweden and stuff being up on stage and talking to people outside of
the United States. I think more and more were global citizens, even
though maybe our countries are more nationalists now than ever
before, I think more and more we're thinking about internal aspects
of our country.
00:26:20 Rob
But as citizens, I think the internet makes us
global. And I think our opportunities for work can be global as
well. I've actually worked four years for a company that was based
in central Europe. I was the only one in the United States. So, my
online brand was critical to that relationship. And so, I think the
opportunities are much bigger if you think outside of the U.S.
borders
00:26:46 Salvatrice
Very true. Well, this has been such a lovely
pleasant conversation, Rob. I really appreciate your time. And if
there's a listener who would like to connect with you or any of our
educators or employers that would like to connect with you, what
might be the best way they can do that?
00:27:00 Rob
Well, I can be found on Twitter. I have a Twitter
account @RobGreenlee and that's with two Es on the end. I do have a
website at robgreenlee.com. I do co-host a weekly podcast called
The New Media Show. It's at newmediashow.com and it's live on
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, every Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern,
noon Pacific. And we talk about the podcasting space and the
industry of podcasting.
00:27:28 Rob
We oftentimes do that show live on stage at
conferences around the country. So, it's all about creating
conversations and learning about what's happening in the podcast
medium. And that's what I do. And then lastly, you can always send
me an email. If you want to send an email to
rob.greenley@gmail.com, or you can send it to robg@libsyn.com. It's
up to you.
00:27:52 Salvatrice
Very good. Thank you so much. We'll be sure to
include those in the show notes. Thank you again. And we'll connect
again soon, I'm sure.
00:27:59 Rob
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on your
show.
00:28:02 Salvatrice
Thank you very much.
00:28:05 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work
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00:28:14 Salvatrice
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00:28:14 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena
City College wish you safety and wellness.